Ted Nugent needs some help...

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What you guys are doing and saying TODAY is what matters.
bogie, if nobody was called a lunatic fringe cannibal on a hippie turd chewing bubba drunka$$ website, this thread would not even exist today.

Ted Nugent is reaping the rewards of his own words, that he willingly used, to further divide gunowners.

Nugent cultures the good old boy image well, fooling many people into thinking he is not an elitist. His words and actions speak for themselves. There are many gun owners who simply agree that Ted Nugent does not speak for them. They want a more articulate representative. It's easy to divide people by calling them names from your pedestal. It's much harder to make a difference.
 
I *do not* chew turds!:)

Having said that, Ted should really think a bit more before he puts his mouth into gear. We're blowing a great opportunity here, people. Gotta find a way to heal the wounds and capitalize on the momentum.
This situation reminds me in a vague way of the Macedonian wars after Alexander bit the big one. Pyhrus (sp) comes to mind...

Biker
 
He called for fish and game departments to bar them from hunting use.

Actually he said the F&G should ban them.

That is in no way, shape or form a call for a ban by any government.

Fish and Game is part of the state government.

In my world 1+1 = 2. And 2 equals calling for a government ban on a specific rifle for a specific purpose.

Just by uttering the word ban, he played right into the anti's agenda.

He (Zumbo) needs to quietly retire, any more utterances by him is just likely to drive a bigger wedge between the "sport" shooters and hunters, IMO.

The hunters have lost one of their demi-gods, and are blaming EBR owners for his fall from grace. After all, he was just putting into writing how many of them feel.

The sooner he disappears from anything to do with shooting, the sooner all gun owners can forget about him, and start working together to repair the damage he has done.

bob
 
I still don't understand

Am I dense? I still don't understand what Ted is saying here. To WHOM is he referring?
Panther Arms claim they are getting hammered by the antigunners amongst us

People who are against the redemption of Zumbo are NOT anti gunners. Is he using that term as a derogatory term? Is he referring to someone else??
Some people just have a different opinion about forgiveness. That's OK. But, for some reason, I get the impression that Ted is referring to someone else, not us.
Like Dave Workman mentioned earlier, Ted is a little difficult to follow in his syntax.

Maybe I'll ask the Nudge himself
 
I *do not* chew turds!

Didn't someone else make a turd sucking comment a coupla years ago?

What is it with the gun owning bourgeoisie and their view of the proletariat? A group can only take so much distain before they say enough.
 
Turd Chewin'...

That's just me tryin' to be funny, XB. You'll notice I didn't deny the rest of the charges.

Biker:)
 
Actually I think that Theodore was referring to a group of people who are registered on a lot of firearms sites only to stir the crap, and keep us politically impotent.

He also needs an editor, but hey... His heart is generally in the correct place.

Just remember - every time you say "Hey, this fellow isn't 100% for us, so lynch 'em!" we lose.
 
Just remember - every time you say "Hey, this fellow isn't 100% for us, so lynch 'em!" we lose.

Excellent point. One that many of the NRA bashers around here need to learn :scrutiny:


I don't think we should write off Jim Zumbo...yet. He screwed up and appears to be making things right. But at this point he's thrown a few contrite words out there and had his picture taken with some "evil" rifles. Thats a start, but I'm not just going to run out and embrace him with open arms just yet.

Ted's mistake was to cast all of us who don't instantly and blindly accept Zumbo back into the fold as being the enemy. That does as much harm to the movement as what Zumbo did or whatever it is he thinks the anti Zumbo folk are doing.
 
Actually I think that Theodore was referring to a group of people who are registered on a lot of firearms sites only to stir the crap, and keep us politically impotent.
Perhaps so. Who knows? Further division has happened as a result of Ted Nugent's words none the less. That's why representation by someone who can speak and write coherently is essential.
 
Actually he said the F&G should ban them.
"from our woods and prairies" - you missed this part.

Just as F&G limits other areas of what you can use to hunt on public land.

Fish and Game is part of the state government.
In which states do the F&G or Parks & Wildlife departments govern firearms ownership?

Did he, at any point, suggest that you not be allowed to own a terr'ist rifle? No.

Nothing of the sort. Nothing even close. He might have felt that way deep in his darkest of hearts: but he never said it and he never wrote it.

In my world 1+1 = 2. And 2 equals calling for a government ban on a specific rifle for a specific purpose.
Ah, yes, that's just like banning ownership, right?

Wait... no, it's not. So 1+0=2 in your mind, I guess.
 
Nothing of the sort. Nothing even close. He might have felt that way deep in his darkest of hearts: but he never said it and he never wrote it.

You are missing the point of the comment though, and the damage it could do.

The argument all along, and what got the first AWB through was that ARs and other "evil" looking weapons had no sporting purpose.

We argued that was not the case, that indeed the black rifle had a sporting purpose and in fact was used by many hunters.

In Jim Z's blog he states that even the guide he was hunting with told him he had many customers using the black rifles.

For the #1 hunting writer in the country to say that yes, the anti's are right and EBRs indeed have no sporting purpose and in fact should be BANNED from use in hunting does call for an outright ban either in fact or in spirit.

The very argument that since they were not good for hunting so they should go altogether is EXACTLY what we've been fighting for ever.

You cannot say that Jim's words did not call for a flat out ban, that was the end result of the comments he made and the argument that would be made, and has been made, by the grabbers.

That said, it is clear he has realized the error of his ways and I think we should all take a few steps back and see what he does next.

There's no rush, nothing is on the immediate horizon that a Zumbo could either help or hurt, so let's see if this conversion is genuine and enthusiastic.

The last thing we need, however, is for people to misquote him or to try to change what was said. He said what he said, the meaning was clear. He's now realized his mistake and we should give him a while to clear it up.

That doesn't mean I'm going to get back on the Jim or Ted fan wagon for a while, but I'm certainly going to give them both a chance.
 
Yes, what Zumbo said was profoundly outrageous and damaging.

Yes, his first few aplogies were lame "I'm sorry I got caught, I'm sorry I got smacked down" drivels.

HOWEVER,

Yes, he is trying to enlighten and redeem himself.

That a photo was published of him shooting Nugent's pink-striped AR15 shows that he is taking this seriously, and is trying to head in the right direction.

Despite the justified anger and censuring, allow Zumbo the chance to get it right (which will not happen instantly). If anyone can redeem Zumbo, it's Nugent - so support Nugent.

Christ was criticized for eating with sinners, but what he did was right, for who else could save them from their sins?
Nugent is criticized for shooting with banners, but what he does is right, for few others can evangelize the 2nd Amendment like Nuge.
 
The important thing to remember here is that we can NEGATE his blog post. We can make it unusable by the Brady folks.

But we CANNOT do that if we do as they wish, and split the schisms between the different factions of firearms owners further. Too damn many of y'all are thinking with something other than your brains on this one... Tone it down a little, take a breath, and use that thing on top of your shoulders.

And remember - not everyone you see online here is our friend. The biggest bleep disturbers may WANT our gun culture to disintegrate.

So step back, think, and ask yourself "How can we get everyone on the same page?" That's the important, and VERY cool, thing that can come out of this.

All Zumbo did was turn over a rock. The rock was there, and what was under it was also there. Can we use it? Or are we gonna flip the rock back over, and stomp on it a few times?

Help me, fellas - I be runnin' outta metaphors...
 
Christ was criticized for eating with sinners, but what he did was right, for who else could save them from their sins?
Nugent is criticized for shooting with banners, but what he does is right, for few others can evangelize the 2nd Amendment like Nuge.

Again, be clear and correct in your statements.

Whether DPMS drops Nugent or not I could honestly care less. I'm worried about the big picture, long term.

Nugent's actions here are not like Christs, he's not just eating with sinners.

Nugent has basically said in his online writings that anyone that doesn't agree with him 100% on all things is an outcast and the other insulting words he used.

That kind of thing is more dividing of shooters than anything Mr Zumbo said.

Nugent, and the rest of us, should simply be quiet for a while and see how true and deep Mr Zumbos "upgrade" really is.

Let's drop it altogether and re-convene in 6 months to see what's happened.
 
I agree with TexasSIGman. I think we should cool down, give it some time, and see what Jim Zumbo does now. If he seems sincere and takes positive, tangible steps toward defense of the 2nd Amendment we should help him.

I was one of those actively calling for his sponsors to drop him and I was glad when they did. I definitely stand by that. I think it has taken him a little while to fully realize the magnitude of the potential damage he has done. I also think this was pretty overwhelming for him. He went from the top of the hunting world to pariah of the gun world in a few days. That probably takes a little while to absorb.

He screwed up in a big way. He payed a big price and deserved it. He wants to redeem himself now. It takes a big man to do that. He was brought down in a few short days but he cannot redeem himself in a short time. It will take months or years. Let's be patient and help if we can.
 
You are missing the point of the comment though, and the damage it could do.
The damage it could have done was precisely nil, had Zumbo not been 'taught a lesson.' It was a blog that few people read, and no one outside of hunting circles had heard of the man.

Fact is, more people know about Zumbo's attitude (at least half of whom are going 'yeah, what he said!')

And all you've done as far as 'educating' sportsmen is tell them they need to keep their views to themselves. You really think anyone who felt the same as Zumbo (perhaps even Zumbo himself) thinks differently of AR owners and users today?

You cannot say that Jim's words did not call for a flat out ban, that was the end result of the comments he made and the argument that would be made, and has been made, by the grabbers.
I can say that Jim's words didn't call for a flat out ban... because they didn't.

That you want to believe that anti-gunners were going to take up the cause of Jim Zumbo and ban terr'ist rifles has absolutely nothing to do with what he wrote or said.

The last thing we need, however, is for people to misquote him or to try to change what was said. He said what he said, the meaning was clear.
Indeed it was. Restricted for hunting purposes in no way resembles "round 'em up and melt 'em."
 
Folks like Nugent & Zumbro are out for one thing, themselves - nothing more.

It's about the almighty dollar, my opinion of Ted Nugent as a rep for the 2nd amendment has not changed - he's worthless.

There was a gent from Australia who posted a page or two back - some rather profound observations on gun ownership or the lack thereof at the hands of types like Zumbro and Nugent.

12-34hom.
 
That you want to believe that anti-gunners were going to take up the cause of Jim Zumbo and ban terr'ist rifles has absolutely nothing to do with what he wrote or said.

Then why is anyone talking about this at all if he didn't state exactly what the grabbers have been saying all along? He gave weight to their argument. In that one written statement he gave them what they needed, an insider with exactly the same views.

Are you saying that none of what followed should have happened?

Should pro 2A folks have simply read what he wrote and ignored it?

If you pour gasoline on a fire it doesn't relieve you of responsibility simply because it wasn't your fire.
 
There was a gent from Australia who posted a page or two back - some rather profound observations on gun ownership or the lack thereof at the hands of types like Zumbro and Nugent.

Thing is, it wasn't "at the hands" of the "zumbo/nugent" types.

What he described was the same situation that we've got here today - a fragmented community. And it was that way long before Zumbo got pissed and typed his rant.

Some parts of their culture _stood back_ while other parts got hit. And then they wondered why nobody came to _their_ aid... It wasn't the "zumbo/nugent" types orchestrating the Ozzie ban - it was simply that they stood back, thinking that it'd never happen to them. Because it wasn't their part of the culture being hit.

We've got the same thing going on now. We need to move on (grin) and come together (grin) and all that happy crap. Because if we don't, we'll go down in pieces. Maybe within the next decade.

Now, how can we avoid that? Should we fight some more amongst ourselves? Or should we give at least a try at uniting?

Sheesh.
 
Now, how can we avoid that? Should we fight some more amongst ourselves? Or should we give at least a try at uniting?

The only fight amongst ourselves that I see is whether or not to be nice to Mr Zumbo from here out and that's hardly a fight worth mentioning.

Other than that, there seems to be little disagreement.

Now that this episode has happened, I see much more understanding and common ground than before.

Perhaps Zumbo did a favor by showing many hunters the power we all have if we stand together and the error of the old way of thinking.

I'm not sure where the idea that there is dissent comes from.

Whether Zumbo survives or not doesn't really matter, the damage he did was contained, and the strength of shooters as a whole is stronger now than 2 weeks ago.

At this point do any of you really think that if somehow Zumbo were to turn against us that it would really matter?

Do you think he has any credibility left at all, even among his loyal hunting readers? He doesn't matter now, let's move on.
 
Indeed it was. Restricted for hunting purposes in no way resembles "round 'em up and melt 'em."

The problem here is that the gun grabbers have inserted the "sporting purposes" nonsense that has been driven into everyone's head. The way to ban guns is to show they have no "sporting purpose". So when they are banned for use in hunting, there is no "sporting purpose" and they end up being banned. The gun grabber strategy is a long series of incremental steps and that definitely plays into their hands.
 
Ted Nugent is reaping the rewards of his own words, that he willingly used, to further divide gunowners.
That is true. Teddy is also willing to stomp on 1a to keep 2a? I almost registered on his website, then i read some of his posts and thought better of it. It has been said in previous posts, don't disagree with Teddy or you are a #@%&* and your opinion gets deleted. Grow up Teddy and stop acting like a spoiled 2 year old.
We might not all agree on every little thing regarding guns, however, we should all agree to stick together 100% to protect RKBA, and not give anymore ammo to the anti's that helps them in their fight to take away our guns.

Wake up Nuge, put down the pipe, we are all supposed to be on the same side. And what the heck is upgrade? Computers get upgraded.

Zumbo has appologized enough, and deserves to be forgiven, however since he "really stepped in it" big time, he should definately not be our spokesman in this battle. What happens the next time his mouth outruns his brain?
 
Zumbo as an example

We should let Zumbo serve as an example of what happens when you turn on your own. This jerk had it made, sponsers and people kissing his [Redacted. See Forum Rule #3 --LawDog]everywhere he went. Nugent is [Redacted -- Forum Rule #3/Keep The Language Clean -- LawDog]me off by trying to save this elitist Redacted -- Language again -- LawDog]. Zumbo is 67 years old. If he hasn't learned in that long that you don't [Redacted -- Same-o, same-o -- LawDog] in your own bed then he deserves everything he got. Apology not accepted. He should do everyone a favor and retire, instead of whining about water that is already over the dam.
 
Vaportrail, please read again where you are. This is The High Road.

Maybe you thought you were on another forum perhaps with only 6 posts.

That kind of stuff isn't helpful at all and exactly what we're trying to NOT look like.
 
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