Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by JCF, Dec 19, 2006.
Geez...how much do you want to bet it was a condition zero "carry"?
I'd be interested in what kind of gun it was and whether it was in a holster or not. My sympathies for all involved
This is a tragedy, no doubt or question about it.
Let us also consider that part of the fault which lays on the state of California, whose policies are such that honest citizens, evaluating themselves to be in danger, have little recourse other than to carry illegally, which in turn promotes deep, unsafe concealment.
edited to add:
uh...aren't CA handguns certified to be drop safe by the AG?
Not to sound like a party-pooper, but the guy f***ed up and someone else is paralyzed because of it.
They should throw the book at him.
The state of California
Mick was a police academy graduate, but didn't have a CCW permit. CA residents: call your local politician in support of CCWs!
Californias's fault?!?!?! This has nothing to do with the California CCW law, or lack there of. This is 100% the fault of someone who didn't properly care for a loaded firearm.
Has anyone seen those purses they sell for women to CCW with? They seperate compartments for the pistol with a somewhat hard lining to prevent anything (like a pencil or lipstick or keys etc etc) from getting into the trigger guard and causing a discharge.
This guy might not have been legally allowed to carry for stupid reasons, but there is no reason he couldn't have broken the law while still using proper gun handling. There is no reason a holster cannot be used inside a backpack.
I was just thinking that some basic firearms education should have prevented this. What do they teach at the police academy?
He should have known better. Not sure he should be punished a great deal criminally, but there should be a hefty fine payable to the victim.
There is a growing number of Californians who are learning that they CAN carry legally in CA. And licensed California CCW'ers enjoy some of the most lenient carry laws in the country.
"who graduated from the police academy, said he is ashamed of a mistake that will haunt him.
"I made a really bad decision," he said. "I never even thought in my wildest imagination that a gun could go off without pulling the trigger."
My Forensic Science teacher has a few revolver pistols that will fire and cycle just by tapping the bottom of the handle onto a surface. For some reason, I don't buy his statement and think that someone has to be a complete idiot to think this way or believe it.
Just how do you do that? Setting your backpack
on the floor and making the gun go boom? Just how in the world? Did he drop the bag or something?
The big question is, what else was in the bag? My personal theory would be that it was a gun with no manual safety, or one with the safety off, and something else in the bag got inside the trigger guard and pulled the trigger when he set the bag down hard. The corner of a heavy book could do it, for example.
Dan M. +1
You can get a ccw in PRK, it's a little difficult to get, and some counties (L.A. Riverside) will only grant ccw to LEO, and former violent crime victims (so they can be ready for the next time:banghead: ) If he were in these counties he'd never have gotten a ccw, it's up to the County Sherriff's discretion.
A pencil could get in the trigger guard and lever against the trigger with a simple movement of the bag. if it were a glock (I'd bet something with a trigget safety) it'd go boom. I like glocks, don't want to start a war, just saying in PRK glocks are at the cheaper end of guns and their "safety" is easy to self disengage in said scenario. Also if parts were worn in an older gun it could fire from a drop.
dang benEzra beat me to it!
Bad designed holster?
I once was a rent a cop and we had cheap Hunter holsters, the retention strap went over the trigger guard, leaving the hammer exposed.
Twice I looked down to see my revolver cocked.
Glocks do NOT set off accidental discharges.
Please show me proof.
-If you drop a loaded Glock, it will NOT discharge. Only your trigger finger can set it off.
-Even if there was a "pencil" on the trigger, it would have to manuever around the safety trigger.
-Also, there are the secondary and third safeties to consider.
If it were a Glock, then I'll eat a lifetime of SPAM.
There are still a lot of questions unanswered to the case. Please keep the handicapped teenager in your thoughts.
FWIW, there were 646 CCW permits in Stanislaus County as of 2005.
honestly, stuff like this makes me wonder why so many people insist on carrying one in the chamber.
Around? The safety is right on the trigger. If the pencil is in the trigger guard the safety is essecially "off".
A Glocks safety is a drop safety, not be-all end-all safety. There is no safety to a moron with a gun.
I would like to know what kind of gun it was... I can't imagine any of my handguns doing that unless I had a taut rope or something through the trigger guard.
I'm a disciple of Gaston myself, but anything that can get inside the trigger guard is capable of making one discharge. Give an object the proper leverage inside of a jostling backpack and it'll make a Glock go off.
By itself, carrying with a round chambered isn't a problem, but add in enough stupidity and no margin of safety is going to keep a tragedy from happening.
Has the type of handgun in question been identified, before everyone assumed it was a Glock? I couldn't find it in the thread or the article.
<what my lawyer told me to say>"I never even thought in my wildest imagination that a gun could go off without pulling the trigger."</what my lawyer told me to say>
Stupidity not being a punishable offense under the law . . . What an idiot, and way to try to misplace the blame. This guy was obviously the only one professional enough in the room that he knew of to carry.
"If Mr. Rubalcava had not broken the law, she would be well today,"
If Mr Rubalcava had taken proper care with the weapon and ensured that he had a safe weapon to carry, he still would have been in violation of the law but at least not a complete idiot guilty of neglect.
If it was a Beretta 92F then the safety wasn't on. I bought the Beretta because of it's safety after having my Springfield Armory 1911A go off once while it was on my hip out hunting and dented a primer on a second occasion. I want to pack loaded, but I want to be safe!
IDANO - " I bought the Beretta because of it's safety after having my Springfield Armory 1911A go off once while it was on my hip out hunting and dented a primer on a second occasion."
Idano, how did that happen???
I've carried a Colt's Govt. Model some, and a Colt's Lightweight Commander a LOT, cocked & locked, out in the hunting fields in all kinds of country and weather, although in a good holster.
Never have had the safety pushed down even once, much less a Kaboom!.
I thought that 1911A1 had a grip safety too? On a star you can carry cocked and locked, empty chamber, or there is a position 1/3 cocked that the hammer will not fall if the trigger is pulled, you must pull it back first. (this may have been ommitted in the newer star model B pistols, mine's from 1943) I carry with one in the pipe and the hammer at this spot with the safety on. If safety gets bumped off (won't happen with my holster) the hammer won't fall.
I still don't trust a safety much and keep it pointed away from everything. Having the hammer down on a round is not safe in my gun since the firing pin is not an "inertia pin"
This is a tragedy through and through for all involved.
It rains on both the sinners and the saints, but sometimes it just rains. Bad stuff happens to good people and no amount of legislation or punishment will fix it.
Is there any doubt that the owner of the pistol is not a good man? What purpose is then served by him serving a prison sentence other than illegal carry onto school grounds.
I do wonder if he had the weapon holstered in any way.
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