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Tell me about tanks

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Monkeyleg, May 5, 2006.

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  1. Monkeyleg

    Monkeyleg Member

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    No, not everything. That would take too long.

    I'm toying with the idea of having a fund-raising shoot. And I'm thinking about the grand finale: an auction where people would get to bid on being the one to fire a shell from a tank and destroy a car.

    Obviously, I'd have the owner of the tank aim the cannon. ;)

    I know it's going to be very expensive to transport the tank to the event. But I have other questions:

    Is there any danger to people attending the event? The car would be at either a 100, 200 or 300 yard line.

    What about over-penetration?

    Is the blast so loud that it could shatter windshields?

    Any advice on these or other points you can think of is much appreciated.
     
  2. AJAX22

    AJAX22 Member

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    I have no idea as to the technical aspects of your post, but if your within 1k miles count me in.
     
  3. Chipperman

    Chipperman Member

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    Well, I've seen footage of tanks firing with cars nearby (<50 yards). No shattered windshields.

    As far as safety for spectators, you have to worry about pieces of metal falling down over a large radius. I'd say you'd want them at least 300 yards away from the car, if not more. A much safer alternative, although not as much fun, would be using a practice round. It would still punch a large hold through the car, but would not give the explosion.
     
  4. Jamie C.

    Jamie C. Member

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    Somewhere, a BATFE agent just crapped his pants... :uhoh:

    Seriously.... I hope you get this worked out not only with the BAT people, but the insurance carriers as well... it sounds like a lot of fun.


    J.C.
     
  5. Thefabulousfink

    Thefabulousfink Member

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    IIRC, The only people allowed to own tanks that are capable of firing live rounds is the US Government. However, you might be able to work out a deal with a local Reserve Armor unit. You will have to check with local officials about the legality of firing a DD (destructive device) in your area.

    You might have some success if you make it a Memorial day, 4th of July, or some other patriotic event and get a military unit and/or LEOs involved.
     
  6. GLOCK19XDSC

    GLOCK19XDSC Member

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    I don't know what kind of damage could be done at the ranges you mention, although it seems pretty short from what I recall from the tank ranges in Grafenwoehr, Germany from when I was in the military. Having spent a number of hours parked near tanks during live-fire exercises, I doubt that windshields could be shattered, even if the car or whatever was parked right next to the tank.

    With that said, HEARING PROTECTION IS A MUST-HAVE for anyone nearby!
     
  7. Kestrel

    Kestrel Member

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    Can I recommend somebody's car? (Do they have to know?)

    :neener:
     
  8. Werewolf

    Werewolf Member

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    Why?

    It is incredibly easy to aim a tank cannon - even in the ancient M-60A1's I served in. Having semi kept up with the technology it is even easier in an M1.

    If it were me I'd want more for my money than to just get into the gunner's seat after the cannon had been aimed and to pull the trigger.

    300 yards is too short. A 1000 yards is an easy shot - believe me - it is an easy shot.

    As for bystanders they better all have ear protection - tank cannons are very, very loud. Also due to cuncussive effects you don't want anyone standing to the side of the tank inline with the gun. Anyone within (I forget the number) 30 or 40 feet I think could suffer some serious damage (but I imagine if you can get a real tank to show up the owners would know that).
     
  9. DWARREN123

    DWARREN123 Member

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    What tank, what round? I would not want to be within 500 yards of a tank round of any kind going off.
     
  10. Monkeyleg

    Monkeyleg Member

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    Thefabulousfink: "IRC, The only people allowed to own tanks that are capable of firing live rounds is the US Government. However, you might be able to work out a deal with a local Reserve Armor unit. You will have to check with local officials about the legality of firing a DD (destructive device) in your area."

    The tank itself is a non-issue. The cannon is regarded by the ATF as a Destructive Device.

    Werewolf, there's maybe one range within reasonable driving distance of Milwaukee that has a 1,000 yard range. The others are 100 to 300 yards.

    We'd have to set the opening bid at the actual cost for the transportation of the tank ($$$), the BATF tax stamp for the single round, the cost of fuel, insurance, the cost of the junkyard car, and the cost of the shell/powder charge.

    Even if the tank attraction just broke even in terms of cost, I could see it bringing more shooters for the other parts of the event that would really make money.

    People have been critical of me wanting to put these events in Governor Doyle's face. But that's exactly what I want to do. Maybe it's personal, and I should step back and take an unemotional look at things.

    OK. Just did that.

    Now it's time to get in Doyle's face.
    :neener:
     
  11. 444

    444 Member

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    Not exactly

    But close.

    Knob Creek

    http://www.armamentsales.com/downloa...Creek 06.wmv

    Ok, that doesn't seem to work. When I click on it prior to pasting it, it works fine.
    It is some guys firing a 90 mm artillary piece at a trailer at Knob Creek.
    Is there a way to attach a file to a post (it's 34 megs) ?
     
  12. Sgt Stevo

    Sgt Stevo Member

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    I think you can do it.

    I was in mech, early in my career. I got to drive the Abrams around a little and the Bradly.

    But most of the time, the kilo guys rarely shot live ammo. Pricey. Also, I dont know if the range, would have the backstop to stop around of H.E let alone a sabot.

    And the Unit in question would have to get the nod from the top of the food chain.

    Only way I can see it. If it is recruiting event. Even then. In twenty years of service. I have never seen such a thing.

    I know! Just get a de-milled tank, and the winner gets to drive it over the car. Yes, very cool.
     
  13. Monkeyleg

    Monkeyleg Member

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    Sgt Stevo, you're using too much military jargon. I can't understand you. ;)

    I wouldn't want the shell to be an explosive one. Just full metal. Maybe that's what others here have referred to as a "practice round."

    Also, I have to mention that this is a fund-raiser for pro-CCW candidates. As such, no involvement by any guard units or other governmental agencies would be allowed.

    I've been floating this idea by some seasoned pro-gun activists here in WI, and they all think it's terrific.

    My concerns are: potential harm to bystanders; potential harm to property; legalities; and cost.
     
  14. pete f

    pete f Member

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    There are people about who have 37mm AT guns. They only fire solid shot, and some are legal for all states.

    When I was young and Armed Forced day was actually celebrated, we went to a Army base and we got to shoot a M2 at a school bus. (every kids Dream target) they had the gun set up so it would not elevate and a couple of chains giving you about 5 degrees of transit. You climbed up the ring from underneath, and you got fifteen twenty rounds and the guy who was there would just twist the belt, (many years ago, they may have had missing rounds to stop the gun.) and then you climbed out the back of the APC. I have no idea of the range but i would guess it was 400 yards it was enough that you could slap the paddle and then look up and watch the bus rock back and forth. I got off like 3 bursts of 4-5 rounds. I would think that some USAAR general might get a kick out of something like this...if not a M60 maybe a bushmaster out of a Bradley. twenty 25 mm rounds would chop a car up pretty nicely. If i am not mistaken, the range safe distance for a 120 mm Abrams training round is still something like 4K.
     
  15. panzermk2

    panzermk2 Member

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    OK you got me....
    50 meters? Live rounds will blow your eardrums out of your nose.
    TANKER ears is what they call it.

    unless is an old bulldog or a M115 sheridan you are talking about min 55 tons.
    Transport fees state, local etc would make Gates gasp.

    some 37mm are rifled and as treaded by the BATFE as rifles crazy yes but Marc Krebs of Krebs custom has one in the center of his office.

    H.E. and Sabot not an issue if you could get a 105mm both those ammo types are big NONO's, heck the SABOT is depleated uranium.
    so M60A1 through M1A2 are out 105/120 main guns
    Sheridan is a 155mm howizter so its out

    Sherman? well if its a A model with a 30mm still destructive device and still heavy.


    M3 General Stuart now that could work. very lite tank as tanks go 28,000lbs
    37mm Gun M5 M22 in turret
    Continental W-670-9A; 7 cylinder, 4 cycle, radial gasoline good on gas
    [​IMG]

    they were Panzer bait, but many a VFW havem sitting out in front of them so easy to get........

    even for this old little tank a live round would blow the crap out of a car.
    Hell it would drive over it better than any monster truck.
    Speaking as an X CAV tanker M60AI, M60A1E1, M60A3, M1A1 the military channel does no tank justice. Standing in my TC's hatch peeking over the m85 in my cupe everytime the maingun went off it made the filliments in my lungs vibrate and tickle. Bore siting was the worst. the tank next to you hit you worse than your own tank since when you shot yours the sound wave traveled out away from you as the source. but the guy next to you his sound wave slammed into you really smacking you.

    If you get this thing together let me know I will show up. Barrett 50mg's are NOTHING repeat NOTHING like popping off a 105/120mm

    3/3 ACR Brave rifles 11 ACR Black Horse
     
  16. panzermk2

    panzermk2 Member

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    pete f

    A redneck's famous last words...HEY DUDE, watch this!

    you forgot the part "hold my beer.................:eek:
     
  17. antsi

    antsi Member

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    http://www.tankride.com/Russian T34 Tank.html

    These guys have a Russian t-34 that they hire out for "rides" and "lessons". They have the thing set up for re-enactments - it sounds like it can shoot blanks and they set up pyrotechnic "targets" to blow up when shot at. They are in Minnesota. They will transport the tank to outside events, but I bet that gets pricey.


    Another possibility closer to home for you - Taking I-94 north from Chicago to Milwaukee, there is a guy on the west side of the freeway who appears to be a collector of military vehicles. I think he's closer to the IL border than to Milwaukee. It looks like a farm, but he has a number of armored vehicles - some obviously restored - sitting out in his yard. I remember seeing an M 48/60 or whatever (the one with the boat-looking front hull), a Stuart, and a Sherman, an APC of some kind, and a number of others. Whoever the owner is, he may be sympathetic to gun rights and might be able to come up with some kind of "tank ride" experience for you to raffle off.
     
  18. Monkeyleg

    Monkeyleg Member

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    Thanks again for all the replies. More to think about.

    Antsi, I've been to the military museum you mentioned. I know that the owner had some operable tanks (he was always out driving them around in the fields behind the museum).

    However, he got booted out when the city of Pleasant Prairie grabbed a tract of land along I-94 for new development. The president of the Pleasant Prairie city council is none other than state Representative John Steinbrink, one of the two Democrats who flipped on the veto override vote for our CCW bill. Small surprise, huh?

    panzermk2, sounds like my options have narrowed.

    I'll just have to see if someone in the state has an operable tank and try to get a good handle on cost.
     
  19. Stickjockey

    Stickjockey Member

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    Monkeyleg-

    One thing you might try is getting hold of the Military Vehicle Preservation Association:

    http://www.mvpa.org

    and seeing if they can put you in touch with someone with a tank mounting an active gun. They'd be able to tell you more about the ins and outs, and there might even be someone in your area. How cool would it be to not only fire the round, but do it out of a vintage Sherman?:what: :cool:
     
  20. lbmii

    lbmii Member

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    Yeah, whoever wins the raffle gets to drive a tank over a car or two.

    Of course you could fire a blank round for effect.


    I don't see how you could actually fire the thing with a live round without getting invaded by troops in black uniforms riding into your event by way of cattle trailers. Or they might spend months and months trying to talk you into shortening your tanks’ barrel and then they would sneak up to your event and would probably go and shoot your dog. :eek: :uhoh: :confused:
     
  21. Jamie C.

    Jamie C. Member

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    You sure about this? A solid projectile has more chance of going a looooong way more than anybody really wants it to... HE, on the other hand, is going to pretty much stop where it hits... except for the shrapnel. And that's going to do much less harm, at a distance, than one big chunk of...whatever... coming at you.

    Also, the HE can be "Tuned" to be little more than a light show and some noise. Solids can't.

    So... is it a "flash/bang" or "hardball"? These are, in essence, your choices.



    J.C.

    P.S. I was at Ft. Knox, Ky, back when the Abrams was the "X-M1"... M-60's were the "tank de jour" for U.S. military units.... So, I know a bit about what they can do, but not so much on what the ATF will allow.

    J.
     
  22. Monkeyleg

    Monkeyleg Member

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    Well, no luck so far with a tank that will actually fire a shell.

    However, I've located a Patton tank that's set up with a propane system in the cannon. Similar to what the outfit in Minnesota has. Lots of noise and flame, no shell.

    The tank is located in Fond du Lac, which is only about an hour or so from Milwaukee, and less than an hour from the range I'm thinking of.

    If I can't locate a tank that actually fires a shell, do you think people would pay $$$ to fire the propane cannon and then crush the car?
     
  23. Tank Ride

    Tank Ride Member

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    Some helpful Information

    Hello noted hits coming form your site so I stopped by to see what was up.
    Now for some helpful info for all.

    1) No one can own a tank that fires a Live round except the US Government.
    Incorrect. Cost to own a Tank that can fire a live round per year is 3,000 and a anal probe with crowbars from the BATF.:eek:

    2) If you are NOT going to do any live firing you can have the tank fire its oxy propane cannon just about any where ie no range needed.:D

    3) Cost to ship a tank is about 3.50 per mile in the lower 48.:cuss:

    4) Cost for me to transport from Princeton, MN to Milwaukee, WI round trip would be about 2,700.00:banghead:

    5) If you really want to have fun get the car put 20 pounds of Tannerite in it and let people take shots at the car with a rifle. Then sit and wait for someone to hit the hidden Tannerite. Check the link below for a video on Tannerite.:uhoh:

    Hope this helps you. Good Luck and I hope you can get a gun friendly Governor elected so I could move to WI with my toys right now WI is to unfriendly not that Minnesota is a lot better. Last I am having a large party May 20th if you are in the area. Machine Gun Shoot
     
  24. Cromlech

    Cromlech Member

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    This would be really cool to do, I reckon!

    Like some bloke said before me, tank guns are easy to aim. I know this because when I went to Germany in 2003 with the Army Cadets they let us play with a Challenger 2 MBT. The turret control is just like one of those little thumbstick controllers that you get on a Playstation 2 gamepad.

    60 TONS OF BRITISH STEEL BABY!
     
  25. Apple a Day

    Apple a Day Member

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    Another option

    If you can't locate a viable tank then you might go a little more rustic and use a Civil War era cannon. There are plenty of re-enactors around with lots of artillery pieces that are a lot more mobile and less expensive to use than a WWII tank. They use solid shot as a matter of course. The shot is reusable. You spring for the powder and buy they guys some chow and you'd probably get some volunteers.
    Good luck
     
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