MitchSchaft
member
I've heard a little here and there and want the scoop.
Tell me what you know about "Freemasons"
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rock jock
Member
Don't know a lot. Somewhat of a secretive group. Religious beliefs mixed with community service type thing. I think they use "degrees" to denote the level of attainment/seniority within the organization. If I remember correctly, I think some of the rituals are similar to those of the Mormon Church. I do know that several of the Founding fathers were Masons.
Hkmp5sd
Member
It is either a fraternity started in England in the 1600's and originally composed of tradesmen and was somewhat of a labor union OR it is a secret satanic cult responsible for everything bad happening as they secretly try to take over the world.
I tend to think of them as some reclusive club that on occasion has some famous members, that for the most part just try to help each other in whatever ways they can.
I tend to think of them as some reclusive club that on occasion has some famous members, that for the most part just try to help each other in whatever ways they can.
Gordon
Member
Being a John Bircher also I always had a hard time with Elmer Kieth's masonic hand grips on his guns. I can't imagine Kieth (or my dad) worshipping Lucifer(the light bearer) and wanting to overthrow the constitution for an elitist conspiricy. I got thrown out of De Molay for being too weird. Bill Clinton is the National head of De Molay I think. 
Read a book years ago called "The Brotherhood" by (I think) Steven Knight. According to him the Masons become more sinister and secretive at the high end of the membership pyramid, as well as quasi(read very weird)-religious and mystical. One guy I knew was very solemn and serious when (vaguely) referring to the ritual, commitment, fraternal aspects, etc. Another guy belonged and wore a ring, but would blithely remark that he joined to get business and business connections. My grandfather belonged but passed before I was old enough to quiz him. Whether true or not, the cult/conspiracy claims are probably an inevitable function of their being a closed social group exercising some antiquated rites. (By the way, I hear the Amish have the bomb.)
Sure better informed others will reply. (Or not ...)
Sure better informed others will reply. (Or not ...)
Preacherman
Member
There's a whole lot out there on the Web - try a Google search. To start you off, here's a pro-Freemason Web site and a Catholic analysis of Freemasonry (which is pretty factual, I believe, based on contacts I've had with many Masons). It's also important to note that Masonry in the US is often very different from that practised in Europe.
Generally good people, who take care of each other and give much back to their communities.
There is a religious component to their organization, and much of it is not consistent with traditional, orthodox Christianity, though this is not readily apparent in the lower levels. I'm not sure just how strong the religious component is, though. As far as I've ever been able to tell, it's mostly a community and social organization, with just enough religion thrown in to keep things interesting.
Anyway, the drifting from 'orthodox' Christianity is probably the origin of the more vicious rumors you've heard about the freemasons. "They" ain't "us," you know?
Sir Conan Doyle wrote about 'em, in ... ummmmm, which one was it? Sign of Four?
pax
There is a religious component to their organization, and much of it is not consistent with traditional, orthodox Christianity, though this is not readily apparent in the lower levels. I'm not sure just how strong the religious component is, though. As far as I've ever been able to tell, it's mostly a community and social organization, with just enough religion thrown in to keep things interesting.
Anyway, the drifting from 'orthodox' Christianity is probably the origin of the more vicious rumors you've heard about the freemasons. "They" ain't "us," you know?
Sir Conan Doyle wrote about 'em, in ... ummmmm, which one was it? Sign of Four?
pax
Preacherman
Member
Not quite, Pax... as I said, US Masonry differs from that practised in Europe, where it can be far nastier and more demonic (and I mean that literally!) than here. There have been several cases with Italian, German and French Masonic groups where devil-worship, the Black Mass, and other really nasty things have come up... you may remember the fuss about the P12 lodge and its connections to the Banco Ambrosiano debacle. There have been some interesting books published on the subject.
That is a deep question (one I’ve been researching myself lately) and not one that really could be answered in this forum. Here is a forum that might provide some answers for you. In short though, the best I can tell, a Mason is a man that believes in a “Supreme Being†that created and governs the universe (apparently that can be any god your religion dictates but that religion must not be a polytheistic one). Additionally, symbols and such are used in an allegorical manner to teach members (not sure what is taught though, perhaps traditional values?) There is an oath (and it must be a sworn oath, not an “affirmation†or some such) they swear to saying something along those lines. I believe the Bible they use (called the Sacred Text or Sacred Law or something) is a King James Version of the Judeo-Christian religion. I am pretty sure that Freemasonry has given rise to the Knights Templar, Eastern Star (female version of a Mason), Shriners, and Scottish Rite (and I’d bet there are more). My understanding is that they insist on not being considered a religion in and of itself, but rather a “supporter†of all religions (that are theistic in nature). In other words, they are religious but not a religion. That’s what I read anyway... The more I look, the more confusing it becomes. It is not a secret society in the normal sense (members are free to let others know they belong to a Lodge) but at the same time there is a ton of obfuscation and an amazing amount of outright contradiction from one source to another. FWIW, more than a few Popes have excommunicated Masons. IIRC, Pope John Paul says that Catholic Masons are in a state of sin and may not receive communion, and that Catholicism and Masonry are irreconcilable.
Oh, one other thing. It appears that there is a bit of a divergence between Masonry in England and Masonry in America. I couldn’t tell you exactly what that difference is though.
Here's a site that has a ton of stuff, but I couldn't tell you how accurate the information is. http://www.masonicinfo.com/
Oh, one other thing. It appears that there is a bit of a divergence between Masonry in England and Masonry in America. I couldn’t tell you exactly what that difference is though.
Here's a site that has a ton of stuff, but I couldn't tell you how accurate the information is. http://www.masonicinfo.com/
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Libertarian
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I think that the book Faucault's Pendulum pretty well covered Freemasonry (even though it is a work of fiction).
capbuster
Member
Contact a local masonic lodge and ask some questions. Seems like they had a small handout years ago entitled" What is a Mason".Be careful! They are always looking for new members. As most of you know many of our founding fathers were members of the masonic order. On the lower end you will find the blue lodge. It contains three degrees. Master Mason being the 3rd degree. If you wish, you can seek more light or knowledge by going through either the York rite or the Scottish rite.Some folks go through both. You then have the Shriners. What these people do for critically burned children through their hospitals is a study in itself. The masons that I have had the privilage of meeting down through the years have been both patriotic and god fearing. Take care.
Jorah
Member
Preacherman
This stuff happens now and then among the priests, too. Bored, mislead, or ambitious people can end up in all sorts of dark areas.
Hmmmm. My discordian side suggests that people read Wilson's The Illuminatus Trilogy for possibly the funniest treatment of the Masons ever written.
I suspect that masons are different depending on where you are even within this country... I've seen lodges in Boston and in tiny towns in Oklahoma; the public levels probably vary in focus based on who is attending them; more unity probably comes higher up in the ranks, but I'm just making a S.W.A.G. here.
Hkmp5sd:
Sounds like TFL Alums to me!
This stuff happens now and then among the priests, too. Bored, mislead, or ambitious people can end up in all sorts of dark areas.
Hmmmm. My discordian side suggests that people read Wilson's The Illuminatus Trilogy for possibly the funniest treatment of the Masons ever written.
I suspect that masons are different depending on where you are even within this country... I've seen lodges in Boston and in tiny towns in Oklahoma; the public levels probably vary in focus based on who is attending them; more unity probably comes higher up in the ranks, but I'm just making a S.W.A.G. here.
Hkmp5sd:
Sounds like TFL Alums to me!
Glock Glockler
Member
Aaron, are they free to leave at any time?
I hear that they must take all sorts of oaths to advance to the next degree and they exact horrific punishments from those that break ranks. Why the whole secrecy thing, what are they trying to hide from everyone else?
I hear that they must take all sorts of oaths to advance to the next degree and they exact horrific punishments from those that break ranks. Why the whole secrecy thing, what are they trying to hide from everyone else?
I agree with one of the above posts. Find one and talk to them about it. There is so much garbage on the net about every religion or belief, it makes it very difficult to tell truth from fiction. I have known several Masons. I never cared enough to ask them what it was all about however. That was stupid on my part. All were good men and mostly high acheivers.
Seeing how the FM have religious undertones and symbolism, compare how their rituals, traditions, history and practices stack up against what the Bible says. Research what the Bible says about oaths, secrets, symbolism, rituals, idolatry, etc.
Either FM is right and God is wrong, or vice versa.
Was Jesus Christ a Lodge member?
Either FM is right and God is wrong, or vice versa.
Was Jesus Christ a Lodge member?
There was an article in the Washington Post Magazine section a while back about Freemasonry; turns out Kramer from Seinfeld is a Mason! The article said it's mostly a society of secret rituals and camaraderie. Personally, I think most of the mystique is due to the tin-foil hat club accusing them of running the planet, along with Elvis and Bigfoot.....
It all depends on where you are. In TN and other southern states they tend to be borderline Klan rallies. Havens for bigots. I guess it is the same with all things. You have the good and the bad. People are people no matter what organization they belong to.
I don’t know for sure. The “bloody oaths†thing is one of the really confusing parts. More than a few actual Masons consider the punishments they are sworn to in their oaths to be symbolic and allegorical (remember that point I made about symbols used to teach). Then on the other side you have non-Masons that say that Masons swear to have their tongues cut out of their mouths if they ever divulge any secrets, or some variation of this. Since I haven’t actually read any of these oaths myself I couldn’t really tell you. One of the difficulties I have found in researching this is that for all the hundreds of thousands of books out there very few lend themselves to a valid analysis and what one book says can be the exact opposite of what another book says. For instance, Albert Pike (a high-order Mason) wrote a book about Freemasonry around the mid 1800’s. The book is almost 1000 pages long and is as difficult to understand as any I have every looked at. More than a few more modern books about Masonry reference this book, but in fact take their analysis from other books that analyzed Pike’s book. Confusing and crazy huh? As far as leaving the organization goes, I believe it’s easy. I think if you just stop paying your dues you are terminated by the Masons. Additionally, I think they have something called a demit (?) that is similar to an honorable discharge from the military. Just some sort of a certificate that says that the holder is no longer affiliated with Masonry, but left in good standing. I have no idea how easily a Mason can actually get this demit though, only that it exists.
This is exactly why I keep researching this issue. If the truth be known, I have never known a Mason that I didn’t respect and admire but there remains aspects of the organization that seem to be inconsistent with beliefs they (and/or I) hold.
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Preacherman
Member
I don't know how prevalent this is in other areas or states - perhaps other High Roadsters can provide input? - but in many of the towns around where I live, it's almost essential for a businessman to be a Mason if he wants to make a living. The Masons basically patronize each other's businesses, and "shut out" anyone who doesn't belong. This is a problem for some of the members of my church: they can't be Masons, as Catholics are forbidden to belong to this group, but if they don't join the Masons, their small businesses or professional practices (lawyers, doctors, etc.) will suffer financially. Has anyone else had (or seen) this experience in their own areas?
dadman,
How could you tell from the Bible if Christ were a "lodge member" or not? We don't even get a decent physical description of him in the Bible. The Bible is moot on 99.9999% of what Christ did in his spare time. Most Bible scholars are so full of hot air they should be able to reach Mars without much problem.
How could you tell from the Bible if Christ were a "lodge member" or not? We don't even get a decent physical description of him in the Bible. The Bible is moot on 99.9999% of what Christ did in his spare time. Most Bible scholars are so full of hot air they should be able to reach Mars without much problem.
When I was associated w/ them in No VA they consisted mostly of elderly old men with little more ambition than to get the free meal at the end of the lodge meetings. They may have been more active when younger but they sure weren't active then. As a young guy, I was the chief cook and bottle washer and general jack of all trades. My conscience began to bother me with the moral ambiguity of their rituals so I got a demit. Haven't looked back.
rock jock
Member
These posts do bring up a good point. I cannot recall ever meeting a Mason who was younger than 50 years old. I wonder if they are struggling these days.
BTW, pax, Doyle wrote about the Mormons in Sign of Four, not the Masons. I love Sir Arthur's stuff.
BTW, pax, Doyle wrote about the Mormons in Sign of Four, not the Masons. I love Sir Arthur's stuff.
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Russ, maybe Jesus Christ was a secret agent of the Roman government sent to cause division amongst the Jews, thus making them easier to rule over. Huh, you reckon? The Bible doesn't say he wasn't, so maybe he was. Whad'ya think?
Mitch asked a question. Some of the best answers are found by taking the time to research on your own. He's getting pointers from both sides of the issue.
I find it unusual when practices and rituals run contrary to the source they're claimed to stem from.
Mitch asked a question. Some of the best answers are found by taking the time to research on your own. He's getting pointers from both sides of the issue.
I find it unusual when practices and rituals run contrary to the source they're claimed to stem from.
Dadman,
You needn't take what I said to such extremes. If Christ was a Roman agent , he sure pissed one of the higher ups off, whadya' think? What I mean to say is there is a lot of BS about Masons, Mormons, and other groups out there. One must be careful unless you are willing to claim yourself an unimpeachable authority on the Bible.
The story goes that that the Masons gained knowledge from things they saw and heard while building Solomon's Temple. What their practices and rituals in ancient times were, no body really knows for sure. Because the Bible is moot on a subject 1,000 years later, how do you know the practices really differ? The point is, that many people have spent years delving into this subject to come to differing conclusions. There is a mountain of stuff on every issue so it is near impossible to give a simple answer to the question. I really don't want to get into theological arguments with you or anyone else. I'm sure no Bible thumper and and not qualified to answer. Take heed of all sides and make up your own mind.
Russ
You needn't take what I said to such extremes. If Christ was a Roman agent , he sure pissed one of the higher ups off, whadya' think? What I mean to say is there is a lot of BS about Masons, Mormons, and other groups out there. One must be careful unless you are willing to claim yourself an unimpeachable authority on the Bible.
The story goes that that the Masons gained knowledge from things they saw and heard while building Solomon's Temple. What their practices and rituals in ancient times were, no body really knows for sure. Because the Bible is moot on a subject 1,000 years later, how do you know the practices really differ? The point is, that many people have spent years delving into this subject to come to differing conclusions. There is a mountain of stuff on every issue so it is near impossible to give a simple answer to the question. I really don't want to get into theological arguments with you or anyone else. I'm sure no Bible thumper and and not qualified to answer. Take heed of all sides and make up your own mind.
Russ
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