Tell my Dad why .22LR/.25ACP is no good for SD

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Get him to get a taurus ultralite in 22 mag...(8 shots) or an NAA in 22 mag with the 1 and 1/8 barrel
 
If your dad is concerned about recoil/or his ability/size.
Maybe you could recomend a 380 that would be the smallest i would use for the home.
I dont own one but BERSA make a nice pistol.
 
I have a Baby Browning and I shot a big sow with it out of the barn and she went right down and I figured she was dead. Did it right before lunch and after lunch the one fellow went to take her out to the coyotes and she woke up and walked away. I heard about that one for years afterwards. I never had problems with a 22 handgun in the same situations but 25 auto just seems weak to me.
 
You know your dad better then most, perhaps show him a "less expensive" gun that in say, .380 or a nice little .32 revolver? I am not in the school of thought that you need a .44 mag for self defense, but .32/.380 is the lower end, but one thing to remember.

a .22 in hand is 100 times better then a .357 in the safe!
 
Your dad is working from a large number of misconceptions and twisted facts. Convincing him he is mistaken or out-of-date/out-of-touch (don't say 'wrong') with real facts will take some hands-on experiences. I speak from experience myself. My dad had a home defense .22 9-shot revolver that he was particularly 'proud' and 'satisfied' with. (sorry about the English) My brother and I are fond of our large caliber auto-pistols.

We got dad a range membership and offered to drag him along when we went out. We brought extra guns and ammo. We took cans, plastic bottles and paper targets. Dad brought his 22.

One of us laid out a nice selection of handgun on the bench while the other and dad scattered the targets downrange. We loaded up and started shooting. Our autos made cans and bottles jump and dance, big gaping ragged patterns tore up the paper. The little twenty-two did it's job and the cans and bottles took a lot of little hits but didn't jump much. Holes in paper had to be checked by going down range and looking up close.

It didn't take long for a frown to appear on dad's face. We both encouraged him to try anything he wanted but at first dad kept saying he was fine with his 22. The frown deepened and he increasingly glanced at the various guns on the table. We didn't push but began a sort of round-robin game of can you do this with that gun, pointing to one or another on the table. Our carry guns went into their holsters, and the 'play' began in earnest. After a couple challenges dad wanted in on the game. All are welcome!

Dad took a shine to a nice GP100 right from the start and by days end wouldn't put it down. A couple weeks later he had one of his own and was asking us to load him up some target ammo for practice. He had already purchased some adequate defensive ammo. Problem solved.

Today I would drop both a medium frame (GP) and a small frame (SP) revolver in front of someone like your dad. Then if he was my dad I'd buy him the one that put a smile on his face.
 
Nothing will convince your dad of the ineffectiveness of the .22 and the .25 like seeing it with his own eyes. Borrow an example of each. In his presence, shoot yourself in the left foot with the .22 and in the right foot with the .25. Then vigorously dance about the room, singing is optional, to demonstrate how utterly ineffectual both rounds were. If that doesn't convince ol' Pops, nothing will.
 
To be an accurate test he should shoot one foot with the 22 and the other with a 45 then ask his dad which one he wants to shoot his foot with!
 
The only advantage that .25acp guns typically have is small size. That's hardly a major consideration for a "house gun".

The major disadvantages they have are lack of stopping power, difficulty of accurate shooting (due to small size and crude sights), unreliability (in typical cheap guns) and limited magazine capacity.

Also, the ammunition tends to be quite expensive.

A used .38 Special revolver or 9x19mm semi-auto would be a MUCH better gun, and MUCH easier to fire accurately.
 
If he is gonna carry a .22 he better have darn good shot placement. There are other pistols in larger calibers which are the same size as a .22.
 
Those calibers would be better than nothing but if you shoot someone with them they will probably get angry and come after you.

If thats all your dad is willing to use then I hope he is a very good shot, aim for the head/throat.
 
I think it's funny that most people believe you need a hand cannon for SD. IMO, most people will never need or use it in a SD situation, most burglers or muggers aren't hopped up on PCP and require a full mag of .45 (most are just opportunist) (sp?) and last, i've seen that just the sound of a single gun shot of any caliber sends people running in the opposite direction.

Oh yeah, I forgot, even a .22 or .25 round hurts enough to stop an attack in most situations as I said they aren't all whacked out on PCP, crack or a zombie.

1. I assume you just have a .22 or .25 for self defense, if not, why not?
2. As far as how much it hurts, have you been shot with both? Do you realize that everyone handles pain and trauma differently regardless of drugs?
3. Are you willing to bet your life that you will never need your gun in self defense? And if so, why do you have a gun at all?
 
If he want's a gun for house defense only (not going to want to carry)forget the pistol's,and tell him to get a 12ga.Load it with #4 buck,and you have the best "house-gun"money can buy.IMO anyway
 
As it happens, I have carried a .22 for self-defense and still do from time to time. If we are going to obsess over people handling pain differently, then there is nothing that is dependably effective that isn't crew-served and with a bore measured in inches.
 
but if you shoot someone with them they will probably get angry and come after you.
How many times does this have to be repeated about the .25 ACP?

13" to 16" in ballistics gel with a FMJ is certainly going to do more then just make them angry!
http://www.brassfetcher.com/CCI Blazer and Sellier and Bellot FMJ.html

As will 6"+ inches with 3/8" expansion!
http://www.brassfetcher.com/var25acp.html

If someone unloads a magazine in your chest, you will very likely fall down and die.

rc
 
Different Take

My take on it isn't necessarily the size of the bullet, but the platform.

With smaller bullets, you have less energy exchange in cycle ability. Some pistols are OK, but I'd not trust a .22 or .25 in an auto. Personally, I've had a few friends go with them, and on the range they took a quick dump. Last weekend in fact a guy had the Baretta, and it wouldn't cycle more than a few rounds before jamming.

SO, I'd recommend if the .22 or .25 is it for him, go with revolver.

.380 and up in a pistol will do you just fine.
 
My point about pain is that bangkok seems to be counting on the pain to stop an attack. I don't want to count on that. The only things that will guarantee a stop are CNS hits and lack of oxygen caused by bleeding. Now I recognize that the sound of a gun shot might scare them off or pain might stop them but I'm not betting on it.

I know you can still get lucky with a CNS hit with .22 or .25 but if you're shooting a larger caliber a lucky shot would do the same thing. If you don't hit the CNS then a larger caliber will be more effective at disrupting vital organs and causing the attack to stop. I'll take a crew-served weapon with a bore measured in inches as soon as I can fit one in my holster. Untill then I'll take the biggest thing I can fit in my holster. I'll take every advantage I can get.
 
One more thing; the man is what, 65? 75? He's lived this long without a handgun, what are the chances he'll ever really *need* one. And he thinks he wants a mousegun. If it will make him happy, I wouldn't push it too much. (But get a good one, not a cheap POS)

He does need to make sure he can handle something that small. Small cartridges and small guns are kind of fiddly. Have him at least try a J-frame S&W "Chief Special" or sheriff's model (don't know what models those are) If he decides he really wants a Jennings .22, as long as it's an informed decision be happy for him.
 
I don't agree with the OP. Let your dad get what he is comfortable with. I sometimes carry a 32 acp... not a real "blow your head clean off" type of gun, but enough to deter 99.9% of common cowardly criminals.

If you know you are going into a gun battle, bring a rifle. As for pistols, get one that you will carry all of the time. If it is a 25 acp, so be it.

Where do you foresee a fellow getting shot with a .32 or .380 where identical placement with a .22 would fail?
My sentiments exactly.
 
The Ruger SP101 comes in .327FedMag and you can also shoot the shorter .32H&R,.32Long,and .32Short. Energies are better than .38 special and close to .357 mag. They come in nice factory loads like GoldDot,and HyrdoShocks.
 
A .22 or a .25 is good for self defense. They're guns. They make holes in things. They've proven that they will kill. There have probably been more graves filled with the .22 rimfire than any other single caliber outside of war zones. That qualifies'em. Nobody wants to get shot...not even with a BB gun.

A .22 or a .25 isn't AS good as a heavier caliber handgun, though. Killing isn't as much the problem as in making an attacker understand that he's lost the fight, and now he has no choice except to crawl back under a rock to lick his wounds. There are a good many people out there who are perfectly capable of ruining your whole day after absorbing multiple solid hits...even eventually fatal hits...with a .22 or a .25 caliber handgun. If your father is unfortunate enough to encounter one of those, his main problem will be staying out of the recipient's way long enough for him to die.

Heavier calibers can fail to end an attack, too...but they don't fail as often as the little bores.

So...if his mind is made up, advise him to keep a pair of running shoes handy. He may need'em if things go wrong.
 
But think how much faster follow-up shots will be over 9mm :) (often touted "advantage" of 9mm vs. .45)

Seriously, think of the mouse gun as a single shot 20 ga shotgun that fires serially and its not so inadequate against a single attacker. Most scumbags run off at the first shot anyways so any gun is way better than none.

--wally.
 
Most scumbags run off at the first shot anyways so any gun is way better than none.

Bingo. The largest percentage of cretins who stage home invasions are abject cowards, and the mere show of force with a firearm will in all probability send them scurrying toward the door. If one happens to get shot, and is squirming around screaming for his mommy...he can count on the others...if present...to leave him to deal with it on his own while they head for the nearest safe haven.

On the very small chance that your father's house will be the target of a home invasion:

If your father can make rapid hits across a living room, and if the gun is functionally reliable, and if he will pull the trigger without hesitation...a good .22 will probably serve him well in the role of home defense firearm for 99% of the persons willing to come through the door while the house is occupied. For that 1%er who will become enraged when shot with a minor caliber...about the only thing that will stop him after that point is splitting his skull with a broadhead axe.

If the three outlined criteria can't be met...

Advise your father that a slide-action 20-gauge shotgun loaded with #3 buckshot would be about as close to ideal as he can get. A gunsmith can cut the barrel off to a more manageable 20 inches for a small outlay of cash.
 
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