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Ten rounds of .44mag VS six rounds of .30/30

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Alan Fud, May 13, 2003.

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  1. Alan Fud

    Alan Fud Member

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    We're going to be moving to the hills of PA by year's end (mostlikely mid-summer) and since we're gonna be in the middle of nowhere, I'm thinking of giving serious consideration to getting a rifle for self-defense purposes against four-legged creatures.

    I've narrowed it down to either the Marlin 1894SS
    [​IMG]


    or the Marlin 336SS
    [​IMG]


    ... Which one would provide me with better protection against bears, wolves, etc.; ten rounds of .44mag or six rounds of .30/30?

    Please don't recommend a shotgun, as I already have that covered in a seperate thread ... let's concentrate on rifles in here. :D Thanks.
     
  2. Carnitas

    Carnitas Member

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    I'd say the 45/70 would out do them both for bears. Of course PA bears are on the smaller size.

    Since you're looking for protection not hunting, performance at range shouldent be an issue, so I'd lean towards the 44.
     
  3. WYO

    WYO Member

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    When I think of self defense, I think of something occurring at close range. The chance of getting off 6 rounds, much less 10, is somewhere between slim and none. It's pretty much a toss up between the two, but I'd probably take the .30-30 for the extra range in non-self defense situations.
     
  4. DAL

    DAL Member

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    Personally, I'd go for the .30-30. But that doesn't mean that the .44 Mag. would be a bad choice. For the applications you described, it is such a close call that you'd be a winner either way.

    Does rural PA have wolves? Watch out for coyotes also. My parents, city slickers that they are, moved to the mountains of Colorado for a brief time 'bout 20 years back. They let the family dog out one morning before sunrise and he was attacked and killed by coyotes. It broke the family's heart.
    DAL
     
  5. Marko Kloos

    Marko Kloos Moderator Emeritus

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    Out to about 100 yards, the .44 Magnum is easily the equal of the .30-30 when fired out of a rifle. It has higher sectional density, hits very hard out of a rifle barrel, and offers more rounds in an equally sized rifle. As an added bonus, .44 Magnum rifles can be shot at many indoor ranges, and you could share ammo with a .44 Magnum sidearm while out and about.

    That said, it's hard to find anything wrong with the .30-30, and the "thutty thutty" is definitely flatter shooting past 100 yards.
     
  6. Omaha-BeenGlockin

    Omaha-BeenGlockin Member

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  7. jem375

    jem375 Member

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    Either one will do the trick.........I've had both, and had more fun with the 44 mag.......I reloaded for mine along with my Ruger Redhawk, and my Ruger Super Blackhawk, and the ammo is of course interchangeable........If you are looking for over 100 yards, get the 30-30.............
     
  8. RCL

    RCL Member

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    I like the .45-70 idea, in a guide gun, for Pa. bear country. Contrary to what was posted, Pa. black bears can get huge, with the current state record, a recent kill, going in the 700 pond range. Check the Pa. Game Commision web site or back issues of Pennsylvania Game News.
    The .45-70 can be pretty versitile when handloaded, lite for deer and heavy for bear.
    The link below is to a good Pa. based hunting and outdoor site, with a link to the Game Comm. website.

    http://huntingpa.com
     
  9. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    The .44 Magnum is a great pistol cartridge. But why carry a rifle and shoot a pistol round? Get the .30-30.

    Jim
     
  10. VictorLouis

    VictorLouis Guest

    Well Alan, there goes that lunch offer!

    Based on what I've read from Paco Kelly(www.sixguns.com www.leverguns.com ), the .44 has more poop at typical levergun ranges than the .30/.30.:confused:
     
  11. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    I've had Winchesters in both and still do have one in 30/30 and 45. Personally, I'd go with the 30/30. Not that the 44 wont work on Black Bear, my brother in law took a 450 pounder with one shot at about 50 yards with a Winchester 44mag.
     
  12. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    So ... you going to carry a rifle with you everywhere that you go ...? Mowing the yard, cutting wood, just puttering around ...?

    Get a wheelgun too. :)
     
  13. JStordahl

    JStordahl Member

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    I agree with Jim Keenan. If you're going to carry a rifle, use a rifle cartridge, in this case the .30-30. If ya want a .44 Mag......get a revolver. :D
     
  14. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    One nice thing about that stainless steel is that it's nice and shiny and its reflected gleamings will let Mr. Bear know it's time to leave and you won't see him and you'll wind up thinking there ain't no bears there. And thus he wouldn't be near where you are because he'd be a way-over-there bear and you'd be right. Got that?

    :D

    And in Pennsylvania, wolves they ain't got no of. What is more likely than bears and wolves is feral dogs, and if your rifle is not ready to hand you have problem you wouldn't have if you had your trusty wheelgun right there in its snuggly little holster.

    But if you limit your shooting of Bambi to the range at which you can always hit a tin can while using the iron sights, odds are that a .44 Maggie rifle will work for you just as well as the thutty-thutty.

    Just trying to be helpful...

    Art
     
  15. Soap

    Soap Member

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    Don't worry about wolves ;) As for the other stuff, what Art said rings true as always. When I lived in PA packs of feral dogs were more of a problem than anything. Nothing my Dad's '06 couldn't cure though.

    Personally I would go with the .30/30 since that is what I have in my gun safe. .44 Mag should do just as well for what you intend.
     
  16. Preacherman

    Preacherman Member

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    Do what I did - get 'em both! :D

    Seriously, I have hunted deer with both rifles, and found little or no difference (out to 100-125 yards) in impact effect - in fact, I'd give a slight advantage to the .44 Magnum in terms of the size of wound created. Outside that range, the .30-30 picks up a big advantage in terms of a flatter trajectory. However, in brush or woods, how often are you going to get even a 100-yard clear shot? I like them both, and use them interchangeably in the woods. If I want magazine capacity (e.g. hog hunting), I take the .44; if I'm not likely to need so many shots (e.g. whitetail hunting), I take the .30-30. Either way, I'm happy.

    (For "social use", I'd actually prefer the .44 Magnum version because of the extra magazine capacity, and because defensive shots are unlikely to be "way out there" - if you're shooting at someone more than 100 yards away, you're going to have a heck of a time convincing the DA that you were shooting defensively, rather than offensively!)
     
  17. chaim

    chaim Member

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    I can't say for sure what you'll see in PA but I can tell you about neighboring MD. Here in MD bears are indeed making a bit of a comeback. Montgomery County MD (the suburbs of Washington, DC) actually had a fairly well publicized problem w/ bears going through people's trash and such (of course knowing the press, the problem was probably one or two bears going through one or two home's trash). A while back they were almost non-existant in western MD and presumably western PA, but they have made a great comeback to the degree that there is limited hunting again (or were they only considering that, I don't remember for sure now that I'm thinking about it) and of course they sometimes make their way east (like to Montgomery County). Still, you'll be highly unlikely to encounter one, they are still relatively scarce and they are very shy animals that try hard to avoid humans.

    A bigger problem is that coyotes have recently made their way to MD. I've even seen one here in Columbia (I think it was a coyote, it looked almost like a really ugly and ratty looking fox, but about double the size). I don't know if they are in PA or not, but if not it is only a matter of time. From what I understand they aren't a threat to people but they pretty much destroy the local fox population (and I have seen very few around here this year) and are a huge danger to cats and dogs that the owners allow to roam free.

    Anyway, I have a Win 94 in 30-30 which is really my favorite gun of all of those I have. Still, I wish I had the .357mag or .44mag. For me the pistol calibers make sense since I don't get to the rifle range often and one can shoot the revolver cartridges at a pistol range. Still, even if that weren't the case many people seem to consider the .357mag in a wheelgun to be the minimum for bears (especially East Coast bears) so I'd guess that a .44mag would be sufficient out of a long gun. In addition, if you were so inclined you could use it, loaded w/ .44spl, for home defense duties without too much risk of overpenatration (whereas the 30-30 would be a danger to more than just the intruder when shot indoors due to overpenatration).
     
  18. Alan Fud

    Alan Fud Member

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    Got the handgun part pretty well covered ...
    [​IMG]
    ... But I appreciate the input on the rifle. I should have posted this as a poll because it appears to be pretty evenly split so far between the .44 and the .30/30
     
  19. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

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    Well, like someone else said, to me, self defence usually means up close and I think up close, I'd rather rely on a 44 Magnum. I'd rather have the frontal area of a 44 Magnum than the extra energy and penetration of the 30-30. Within 30 yards or so, I'd think either of them are going to pretty consistantly penetrate anything you're likely to see from most angles at that sort of range... record bears not withstanding.

    Now on the other hand, if you were planning on hunting with this rifle and if a 75+ yard shot was planned/expected/anticipated, I'd rather go for the 30-30. If you're buying a rifle, and you are planning for self defense up close and personal, how about a 35 Remington or a a 45-70 as has been suggested?

    None of the cartridges listed are ideal for 200+ shots but the long ones are adequate. But if I was caught in a 30 yard stuggle with a bear or a man, or even a startled deer, I'd rather have the 35 Remington or a 45-70.
     
  20. DAL

    DAL Member

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    Good points, cratz2, but I'd still stick with the .30-30, although, like I said above, I think either one is a winner for the stated applications.
    DAL
     
  21. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    I dont think you can really "plan" on a specific distance in hunting, the critters aint usually that accommodating. I dont really consider the pistol caliber guns to be more than 50 yard guns, not that you cant hit farther or kill someting that far, I just think its pushing it. The need to keep them in the vital zone increases and the power and probability of doing so is decreasing. My 30/30 shoots tighter at these distances than my 44 or 45. I also think it has a little more "oommff" when it gets there.
     
  22. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Reportedly, coyotes are in every one of the Lower 48. They generally run no more than 40 pounds or so, and you don't need a bunch of power-pistol to kill one.

    They're quick-reaction critters, but they have one bad habit: Just before getting totally out of sight behind brush or over the crest of a hill, they tend to stop and look back. Big Mistake.

    :), Art
     
  23. one-shot-one

    one-shot-one Member

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    jmo

    i agree w/those who like the .45-70 if it is your only lever gun
    but of the choices you gave, would go with the .44, if you want to shoot past 150 yrds. go to a .30-60/.270/7mag not a .30-30. the .44 gives you an excuse to buy a campanion revovler. this is if "i" was buying new, if you run across a great bargan my op. might change.
     
  24. Alan Fud

    Alan Fud Member

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    Okay, so everyone is saying is that I can take out a coyote with either the .45 or .357 that normally sits on my hip ...
    [​IMG]
    ... and for bears that are less than 100 yards away, the .44 is a better option while bears at over 100 yards, the .30/30 is a better choice.

    Do I have that right?

    If so, then I think that I'm going to lean toward the .44 because an animal beyond a 100 yards would not really be considered to be a threat to me unless it was charging in my direction.

    Another question, if I may. If I'm out in the open and spot a bear charging in my direcction, at what range would it be safe to start shooting -- taking into account that they can move pretty fast and that I might miss while trying to hit a moving target and/or the first shot or two might not do the trick.
     
  25. one-shot-one

    one-shot-one Member

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    head down full speed, i'm not bluffing charge, i,d be on target at 50yrds. and start firing at 30yrds.(assuming black bear).
     
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