Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Terminated Co-Worker/Guns/Restraining Order

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by OneMoreRound, Jan 9, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. OneMoreRound

    OneMoreRound Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Southern California
    For the past couple of Years I’ve been a lurker & not a poster. Just recently signed up and today I need some advise.

    Recently a co-worker was terminated from my place of employment due to threats against fellow co-workers. He’s a very intimidating guy, having a major attitude. He made many threats and many people are afraid. The company has also hired security guards (unarmed) since his termination.

    He recently became interested in guns and people know that I enjoy shooting on the weekends he came to me for advise and I guided him in regards to all aspects of obtaining a handgun in California Legally. He did purchase a couple of Glocks.

    I was asked by a Manager who I also consider a friend to put this information in writing & I did so for the company’s records. The Company is now in the process of obtaining a Restraining order and asked of me to sign my statement for our company’s attorneys. I declined today & advised then I’ll think about it over night. The paperwork is just confirming that's he's a gun owner.

    I would say he's a little unstable and would consider his threats to be a problem.

    What do you guys think? Your advise will be appreciated. Sould I sign?

    Thanks,
     
  2. UWstudent

    UWstudent member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    225
    Location:
    Seattle
    depends if the records are available to the public.. if you can keep this information that you admitted that he's a legal gun owner in a secure database that is unavailable for public viewing (such as himself) then i would go ahead and sign it. but i believe restraining orders are mailed over to this guy to inform him that one has been issued so when he does violate the order, they'll prosecute him knowing he knew not to come over.

    i guess it just matters if he asked the company what crediable witness confirmed he was a gun owner and they said it was you, then you could be on his bad list. but he might figure it out anyway since you gave him information to obtain a firearm.

    i'm just puzzled that why would would the company put pressure on you? i suggest you ask the company to conduct their own investigation and have them "find out on accident" that he owns guns, on their own so you aren't entitled to being under any pressure when this unstable guy finds out that the company found out on their own.
     
  3. chrisTx

    chrisTx Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    219
    i don't know what good a restraining order will really do. violating one is typically nothing more than a civil matter. in other words, if he's on the property, he's committing no criminal offense. the company would have to report his violation to the court and they would call him back in and fine him civilly.

    in TX, we have a criminal trespass offense that is arrestable. we typically give out a warning prior to making an arrest though. it is used pretty often in situations like this.

    if the company is seeking a restraining order (which as i said won't really do them a whole lot of good), they are going to have to probably have some justification for it, particularly if the premises houses other businesses.

    i think if you sign, you could find yourself in court as a witness should a restraining order be issued and a violation reported. i don't really see any harm in doing so though. the company has an obligation to protect its employees. you're just contributing to that.
     
  4. LSCurrier

    LSCurrier Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    271
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Given that he made "many" threats and that co-workers are justifiably scared - I would make the necessary statement against the guy.

    I figure that if the guy has problems due to his actions (his threats) then it is his problem and he should be prepared to pay the consequences. Your statement may assist in protecting against his carrying out his threats if he attempts to.

    My 2 cents on the subject.

    Luke
     
  5. Edmond

    Edmond Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    1,465
    Location:
    Wish You Were Here
    Well, I can say for sure that a piece of paper and some unarmed guards aren't going to stop this guy from going in there and shooting people. That may sound harsh but it's the truth.
     
  6. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    24,041
    Location:
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    Yep. A restraining order and $3.75 will get you a cup of coffee.
     
  7. Stiletto Null

    Stiletto Null Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    863
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    I dunno about signing the thing, but maybe you should consider keeping a couple of carbines around the office. :uhoh:
     
  8. UWstudent

    UWstudent member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    225
    Location:
    Seattle
    get yourself ur own glock and carry it :)
     
  9. Stiletto Null

    Stiletto Null Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    863
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    In California? :confused:
     
  10. Preacherman

    Preacherman Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    13,309
    Location:
    Louisiana, USA
    It's a question of being a responsible citizen. If you did teach this guy to shoot (or some things in that connection), then you are a primary witness to the fact that he has enough knowledge of firearms to make him a risk to others. Add that to his violent/threatening/in-your-face behavior, and this is prima facie evidence to support the issuing of a restraining order. Under the circumstances, I'd say you're honor-bound to provide the evidence your employers need to get the order.

    I also agree with previous posters that a restraining order, in and of itself, won't protect the company or its employees against anything he might try - but at least it gives them a basis for legal action if he does anything short of going postal. With that order, if he violates it to issue more threats, he can be prosecuted and put away for a while. It can also serve a useful purpose for you - if things continue to escalate, you can talk to your employers about the need for armed security, and perhaps even get permission to be armed on the way to and from work (although for liability reasons, I doubt that they'll let you carry at work itself).

    Finally, if you do provide evidence, it will be part of the public record (unless the judge agrees to seal it), and you may need to ramp up your own awaredness and preparedness levels, at least in the short term.
     
  11. Waitone

    Waitone Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    5,406
    Location:
    The Land of Broccoli and Fingernails
    Get to a lawyer. There may be more a work here than just paperwork. :scrutiny:
     
  12. Waitone

    Waitone Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    5,406
    Location:
    The Land of Broccoli and Fingernails
    Get to a lawyer. There may be more at work here than just paperwork. :scrutiny:
     
  13. lucky_fool

    lucky_fool Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2005
    Messages:
    297
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    I'm confused. Did you "guide him in regards to all aspects of obtaining a handgun" before or after you knew "he made many threats and many people are afraid"?

    That said, since you live in California and he had to get a permit to purchase the guns the state already knows he has them and will confiscate them upon the issuance of a restraining order.
     
  14. mete

    mete Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    3,579
    Location:
    NY
    If you knew he was unstable you should never have gotten involved with him ! At this point get a lawyer .
     
  15. rock jock

    rock jock Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,008
    Location:
    In the moment
    I would add one thing: you should talk to the mmgt of your company and ask them what their plan is if this guy decides to "go postal." And I don't mean "DIAL 911."

    What I'm getting at is I suggest you have a heart-to-heart with these guys and ask them that if they aren't willing to pay for armed guards will they be willing to sign a letter to the local sheriff supporting your request for a CCW. The first thing out their mouths will be "liability." At this point you should remind them that since they know this former worker is potentially dangerous that they would be liable if he did something that they could have prevented. Its long shot, but might be worth it.
     
  16. TonkinTwentyMil

    TonkinTwentyMil Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2004
    Messages:
    241
    Location:
    Way past High Noon.
    Maintain an openly cooperative attutude with your employer, but do NOT sign anything until you've consulted with an attorney -- YOURS, not your employer's.

    I know it's a PITA, but it's an ounce of prevention.

    At the very least, I think your employer needs to include some "Hold Harmless" clause with any statement you sign. In some worst case event, it's possible an anti-gun employer -- and the event's victim families -- could try to sue you for "aiding and abetting" said Disturbed/Violence-Prone person's scheme.

    The employer also needs to agree to non-disclosure of your name as the "finger."

    So, if they're naive enough to think some piece of paper (R.O.) is going to protect them, this betrays their mindset -- which is purely Covering Their A$$.

    Have your lawyer prepare such a Hold Harmless agreement. If your employer balks, kiss their little game off. If they do accept such "protection" for you, request that it be documented in your personnel records as an indicator of your loyalty to the company. You might also request a handshake agreement for your employer to reimburse your (few hundred $$) legal expenses via a spot-bonus for loyalty, etc.

    Even if nothing happens with this terminated/threatening employee, you don't want certain (anti-gun) corporate managers and lawyers being prejudiced against you in the future... just because you're a (*cough*) "potentially dangerous gun nut" and they ain't.

    Been there. Seen that movie.
     
  17. antsi

    antsi Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,398
    Well, obviously, if the psycho ex-employee comes back and shoots everyone (plus the unarmed security guards), he can be charged with violating the restraining order.
     
  18. Ryder

    Ryder Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    2,433
    Location:
    Mid-Michigander
    Lots of people get screwed over by their employer and fellow employees. Some own guns and some don't. So what?

    They fired a guy for excercising his first ammendment rights and now they want to work their way up to his second ammendment rights?

    This isn't your problem. I would sign nothing.
     
  19. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    3,809
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Last figures I saw showed something like 45,000 CCW permits in CA.
     
  20. OneMoreRound

    OneMoreRound Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Southern California
    Thanks for all of your replies and comments. You have given me many more options keep them coming.

    When I started to communicate with my co-worker he seemed to be a person of good character. I was not aware of his unstableness until it was too late. I’m not the only person that can verify his Gun Ownership but I believe I’m one of two. I’m totally with everyone a restraining order is just a piece of paper.

    Preacherman, I didn’t teach him to shoot. He was in the Army; US Govt trained him to shoot about 10 years ago or so. We did talk about safety and the process of obtaining a “Handgun Safety Certificate” explained the 10 day wait period.

    Rock Jock, My employers plan is just that call “911”. CCW in Los Angeles County, I have a better chance of winning The California State Lottery or even now Mega Millions! We just got Mega Millions a couple of months ago. I’ll buy a ticket tomorrow.
     
  21. motoman

    motoman Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2004
    Messages:
    225
    Location:
    MN
    Unarmed security....

    I have often wondered what the point of unarmed security is? I have worked armed security in the past, and I would never consider putting on a uniform without also putting on a gun. If nothing else then for my own protection. A patch on a shirt isn't going to do you any good when a disgruntled ex-employee comes a shootin.
     
  22. bogie

    bogie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    9,569
    Location:
    St. Louis, in the Don't Show Me state
    Yeah, the company I work for has the "dial 911 and wait" plan for the event that someone comes in shooting. The cop shop is about a half mile down the road, so I figure that the response time will be at least 1-2 minutes, minimum. My plan is to see if I can still run a fast 40 and heaven help whoever gets in my way between my office and the door... I don't turn too well anymore. They can take care of the shooter, and I'll still be around to say "I told you so."
     
  23. Kramer Krazy

    Kramer Krazy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    925
    Location:
    Easley, SC
    You're in a "Catch-22" situation. If you don't sign the papewrwork, your boss and others in higher-up positions may look down on you for not being willing to assist them. If the guy does come back and shoots up the place, then all sorts of fingers can be pointed at you......everyone wants a scape-goat. On the other hand, you sign the paperwork and word gets to your ex-coworker, somehow. He gets furious because he feels betrayed and doesn't like the fact that you are assisting your employer......now, you've just become one of the top 2 people he wants to "off" first. If he knows where you live, your family may be at risk, because he may be one of those that will hit your home first, then go to work, hoping that no one sees a connection until it is too late......I'd contact a lawyer and speak with my employer about being able to arm yourself, especially if you have a permit to carry. In my case, I have a permit to carry and I can't have a gun on company property. Several people know that if anything happens to me while on company property, my wife will get the best lawyer she can find and sue the cr*p out of them.
     
  24. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    10,755
    Location:
    Colorado Springs
    So let me see if I have this straight.

    Crazy ex employee has guns. Company wants to get restraining order based on this. State of California will send officers to confiscate his registered guns as soon as the ink drys on the paperwork, thus making a possibly nutso guy feel like a victim of statist oppression.


    Anyone else here see a stick and a hornets nest? If he didn't really have any plans to "Go Postal" before this I can bet you he will afterward.
     
  25. Werewolf

    Werewolf Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2003
    Messages:
    4,192
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    +1 Zundfolge...

    You have a way of going right down and into the heart of the matter.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page