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Testing Hickoks shot

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by brushhippie, Dec 4, 2012.

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  1. brushhippie

    brushhippie Member

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    Spent a good while today trying to make the damn shot, but finally got it done. I shot through two layers of cardboard a gallon of water and into a mattress from 75 yards and thats with 15 grains of my powder.....15 GRAINS! You gotta figure he was shooting at least 25 grains....so to answer the question yes indeed a .36 will most certainly kill you from 75 yards away! It is not an easy shot but it can be done.....now if it had been me Mr Tutt was facing, theres a good chance he would have made it!
    http://youtu.be/q9Sok14a7VA
     
  2. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    So who raised the question and why would anyone doubt that a .36 percussion revolver could kill a man at 75 yards? I sometimes wonder if the modern "experts" slept through history class. If those "old guns" couldn't hurt anyone, there must have been a lot of heart attacks at Antietam, Fredericksburg, Gettysburg, etc.

    Jim
     
  3. towboat_er

    towboat_er Member

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    Good shootin Brushy.
     
  4. DoubleDeuce 1

    DoubleDeuce 1 Member

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    Very good shooting. No doubt in my mind the .36 cal is more than adequate.:cool:
     
  5. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    OK, OK, I doubted a little...
    But it was only a little.
    Did it fully penetrate the mattress too?
     
  6. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    I could have sworn I heard the .36 cal was given to the kitchen staff to keep the mice at bay...
    75 yds is quite the feat though. And with such a small charge, however more powerful.
     
  7. Hellgate

    Hellgate Member

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    I heard that old WBH used a Dragoon that day. Anybody know it that's true?
     
  8. brushhippie

    brushhippie Member

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    It went into the mattress but not through. I have read it both ways, Dragoon and Navy, also read somewhere it could have been a .32 S&W....I guess the world will never know. There is no longer any doubt in my mind the .36 would do it....heck its just fun to experiment, I love results!
     
  9. Pulp

    Pulp Member

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    Several of us did this shot as an internet shooting match a couple of years ago. I had bullet holes all over Mr Tutt, but none through his heart. The winning shot was in the heart, but he was using a modern gun and cartridge.
     
  10. brushhippie

    brushhippie Member

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    I had a pretty good breeze, so I was all over the place, it is not an easy shot to make, I think the stars would have to be aligned perfectly for anybody to make two in a row.( a dead on heart shot that is)
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
  11. duelist1954

    duelist1954 Member

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    Back when I was a teenager my only handgun was a .36 Navy replica. I carried that gun all the time when I was out knocking around the countryside...which was pretty much every waking minute that I wasn't in school.

    I used to have a 55 gallon drum set up in an old gravel quarry, and Id sit up on the rim of the quarry and shoot that drum from 100 yards. Mostly I hit it, and the balls all penetrated the drum.

    I wouldn't want someone shooting a .36 C&B at me from any distance.

    Hellgate, I have heard the Dragoon stories too, but Joseph Rosa is pretty convinced that Hickok was carrying Navies for the Tutt fight.
     
  12. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    I know some of the percussion revolver folks have fired tens of thousands of rounds, so I will have to say that in my more limited experience a .36 percussion revolver (or at least an original*) is fully capable of the same accuracy and power as a .38 Special revolver firing standard loads. True a modern .38's sights will probably be better, one used to the old sights can do some pretty good shooting with percussion guns.

    *Many repros are not properly rifled for use with lead balls or bullets.

    Jim
     
  13. J-Bar

    J-Bar Member

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    I think Hickok was good enough to hit a man more often than not at that range. But hitting his adversary in the heart with the first and only shot...those are lottery odds.

    When you stand on the brass markers in Springfield's downtown square where Tutt and Hickok faced each other, you realize what a "long" shot it was!
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
  14. DurangoKid

    DurangoKid Member

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    WBH would have been shooting a bullet or conical. The paper Ctg. was the ammo of choice in CW revolvers of the day. Shooting round balls in CW handguns is more of a modern thing.

    Brush Hippie, the stories from the CW claimed a .36 would not shoot thru the heavy wool coats worn by Union troops. The claim was when these coats were wet the .36 bullets would not cause a fatal wound. It would be interesting, what your test would do on heavy wet wool at 10 yards?
     
  15. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    I'd certainly be interested too.
     
  16. GCBurner

    GCBurner Member

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    From what I've read of the shootout, Hickock was using a two-handed grip to steady his aim, too.
     
  17. DurangoKid

    DurangoKid Member

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    There were many stories about just how far the range was. The reporters who wrote the news of this shooting may have been off on the distance. Accounts of by standers claim that the distance was more like 20 yds. WBH was not always a perfect shot. He killed his best friend by accident during the arrest of a cowboy who had shot a dog. .:uhoh:
     
  18. Pulp

    Pulp Member

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    In that case, he still hit what he was aiming at, unfortunately he was aiming at the wrong thing. His friend came running up behind him, Hickock turned and fired before he realized who he was shooting at.
     
  19. DurangoKid

    DurangoKid Member

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    Pulp. that was my point. Shooting under stress he lost complete control. I have to wonder what the stress level was when he shot at Tutt? I don't know when he started going blind? We know at the time of his death he was almost completely blind. His friends had to help him move about after dark. He had left his wife in Ohio for one more adventure to the gold fields.
     
  20. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Not really.

    In 1871 Hickok was serving as City Marshal in Abilene, Kansas. One night in October a saloon owner/gambler from Texas named Phil Coe fired a revolver after the Marshal had calmed down a disturbance that occurred in front of the saloon.

    Believing that the previous incident had flared again, Hickok rushed to the scene and encountered Coe with a drawn six-shooter within a group of mostly hostile Texas cowboys. Words passed between the two men, who were surrounded by the aforementioned cowboys, estimated to number around 50.

    As Coe started to raise his gun the Marshal quickly drew two revolvers and both he and Coe fired at each other, with Coe being fatally hit. As he fell others in the crowd drew guns and a man behind Hickok rushed up through the bunch with his pistol drawn. Wild Bill caught the movement in the corner of his eye and in the dark thought the man was about to attack him. He turned and fired, and then discovered he had hit and killed his own deputy, who he had specifically told not to do what he did.
     
  21. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    "...a man behind Hickok rushed up through the bunch..."

    Certainly not a very smart thing to do under such circumstances!
     
  22. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Especially after he as told not to.

    I strongly recommend the following book:

    Great Gunfighters of the Kansas Cowtowns - 1867-1886 by Nyle H. Miller and Joseph W. Snell.

    The format is unusual. The authors researched newspaper and court records to find contempory articles concerning a number of famous (and some so much) gunfighters of that era, with the story of various incidents as they were reported at the time.

    Each of the subject gunfighters is featured in a seperate chapter, with all of the articles about them reproduced in order by date.

    If for example, you are interested in the Hickok-Tutt fight you can read the same newspaper reports that were printed at the time.

    Do not expect everything you read to agree with everything you thought you knew. :uhoh:
     
  23. brushhippie

    brushhippie Member

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    Thanks Fuff, Ill check that out.
     
  24. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    On the subject of Wild Bill Hickok, any book or magazine article written about him by Joseph G. Rosa is worthwhile, but in particular, They called him Wild Bill. Also if you like pictures (mostly in color) of the real, original guns used during the frontier period buy: The Taming of the West - Age of the Gunfighter by the same author
     
  25. BHP FAN

    BHP FAN Member

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    ''So who raised the question and why would anyone doubt that a .36 percussion revolver could kill a man at 75 yards? I sometimes wonder if the modern "experts" slept through history class. If those "old guns" couldn't hurt anyone, there must have been a lot of heart attacks at Antietam, Fredericksburg, Gettysburg, etc...''

    Jim, that's exactly the point I was trying to make on the ''would you carry a cap and ball'' thread, but better put. Well said!
     
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