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Testing the Razor (belt) sword

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by JShirley, Jul 24, 2008.

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  1. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    I met Curt Koehler at the Augusta airport today, and we drove to Statesboro, so Derek could take pictures.

    You will get much more detail later, but for now:

    The beltswords are very fast. Presentation time rivals CCW, and may better it;
    Sharpened swords make clean cuts on filled water bottles;
    Unopened plastic water bottles can take multiple hits on hard surfaces without rupturing (I TOLD y'all);
    I need to lose some fat.

    More later, including testing on tougher targets.

    Peace,

    John
     
  2. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

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    Kurt's faster with a sword than John is with a 1911:

    [​IMG]



    It slices OK:

    [​IMG]

    It's even concealable:


    [​IMG]
     
  3. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    The unsharpened belt swords will not rupture filled 2 liter water bottles, even when struck very firmly, though they are still pointy enough to stab with.

    Sharpened belt swords cut bottles cleanly.

    I used my favorite 16.5" HI WWII kukuri as my control. It cuts good:


    [​IMG]

    The much thicker edge deforms the bottle considerably more than the thinner razor sword.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. vicdotcom

    vicdotcom Member

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    How do you sit down with that belt sword on! And can you draw it when in a seated position? Like in a car?

    Love the Kukuri though. One of my favorite blade designs.
     
  5. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    You really don't feel the belt sword much. It's like a stiff belt. As far as seated, that's a good question.

    ...yes, it can be drawn seated. However, it can't be presented as fast.
     
  6. Skofnung

    Skofnung Member

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    I've been looking forward to this review.

    Thanks for putting this together guys.
     
  7. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    Sometimes Mall Ninja gear works well. :neener:

    It is good that you gave the individual's product a fair and accurate trial and assessment.
    It appears to work okay.
    Certainly not as good as an actual rigid sword, but a capable effective weapon just the same which has the advantage of being concealed and not much of a burden to carry.


    I do believe however that this product will be illegal in more locations than even a firearm. Dirk and dagger laws, especialy regarding concealed ones are widespread (though since the case is visible and technicaly it is worn in a "scabbard" on the belt it might not really be concealed).
    So are laws on various blade lengths in many states.
    People have long defended firearms, but there is not as widespread of an effort to defend other weapons, and as a result many are even more severely illegal or restricted.


    It appears to be a worthy product, but the market for such a product has been limited by widespread legislation.
     
  8. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    We'll do more testing tomorrow.

    Simulated tissue and bone. :evil:
     
  9. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    Going to do any tests to see if it'll take a set while bent over a long time? I just noticed that my $8 Wal-Mart machete has taken a small set just from lying on its side underneath some junk. Quality steel it ain't.
     
  10. Eleven Mike

    Eleven Mike Member

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    Right behind you!!
    The manufacturer should feel honored to get this review, considering the major blunders he made in marketing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2008
  11. Geronimo45

    Geronimo45 Member

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    I made some disparging remarks on this gadget a while back... it appears I was an idiot, and I apologize. That gadget appears to be of good quality. I'll be waiting to hear further results.
     
  12. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    Okay, from the top.

    Curt seemed like a decent guy when we spoke on the phone, and that's just how he is in person. He likes guns and stuff: he's one of us.

    The beltsword has a flexible scabbard built in, rather like scales on a snake. The sword fits on the body side of the belt. To present the sword, pull up slightly on the belt with nondominant hand. The handle end of the sword will spring forward. Grasp and pull with dominant hand.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The sword is completely invisible while in the belt.

    The sword feels flimsy, but when sharpened, is effective. It certainly cleanly cuts filled 2 liter water bottles. The unsharpened belt sword did not rupture a bottle, but suffered no damage despite several very hard strikes. Here's a picture of me whacking the hell out of a bottle with an unsharpened sword.


    [​IMG]

    You can see the extreme angle the sword is taking after contacting the bottle. No bending was apparent after the hit.

    I then tried to pierce the bottle with a tsuki thrust.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    I was able to make several more thrusts despite lessening resistance as the bottle drained.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]




    I love my kukuri, but the belt sword is more concealable and has quite a bit of reach on it.

    [​IMG]

    More testing in the AM.

    Seeing the sword being pulled out is quite an experience. It's really hard to believe until you see it.
     
  13. Byron Quick

    Byron Quick Moderator In Memoriam

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    I just got here in time to see a couple of presentations of the belt sword...had to work last night. The belt sword is impressive. It won't take the place of a traditional sword. It's probably illegal most places. An impressive amount of research and innovation.

    It's an impressive covert weapon which has the potential to be devastating as a last ditch weapon.
     
  14. Tom Krein

    Tom Krein Member

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    John,
    Good review!

    I look forward to the rest of it!

    Tom
     
  15. Rupestris

    Rupestris Member

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    STATESBORO?!?!

    I'll be there sometime around the 19th. I got relatives in Metter and Portal.

    Thanks for the review.

    Chris
     
  16. Devonai

    Devonai Member

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    Thank you very much for taking the time to demonstrate this weapon. It is interesting.

    I am still extremely dubious about Mr. Koehler's claim that the sharpened version can rival a properly-forged daito.
     
  17. Frizzman

    Frizzman Member

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    Looks pretty interesting but if you carried it around here and got caught, charges would likely ensue. It is dumb I guess But I can legally carry all the handguns I want of any type concealed on my person, but a sword cane for example, could get me charged with a violation of concealed weapons statutes
     
  18. fletcher

    fletcher Member

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    Interesting review. The demo videos still make me laugh, but I share Byron's sentiments about it:

     
  19. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    Guys, I have to get Curt back to the airport in time.

    We spent a good bit of time today setting up bamboo, wrapped in a mat, covered by cloth, and then cutting it.

    In a nutshell: the heavier, sharpened version of the razor sword really does provide 75% of the cutting capability of a Paul Chen katana. No bull.

    Penetration in plywood is something else. In plywood, because of the denser material, lighter version do even better than heavier, thicker versions. Since we will probably never be attacked by plywood, I don't think that a big deal.

    Here is a picture of a one-handed strike into plywood with the unsharpened side of the .042" thick Razor Sword.*
    [​IMG]

    *In the interests of full disclosure, I should note that Curt appears to be extremely strong for his size, so the fact that he could do this one-handed might be equal to two hands for many of you. :neener:

    John
     
  20. Devonai

    Devonai Member

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    75%? But I need my bisections to be 100%! :p

    It sounds intriguing. However, if they're not banned in Connecticut, they will be as soon as they come to the attention of the pols or big-city cops.
     
  21. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    When the purple prose is washed out of the story it looks like the Razor Sword performs well as a concealed/covert weapon.

    In states that use weapons permits instead of handgun permits carrying it wouldn't be a violation of the law for the permit holder.
     
  22. Joe Demko

    Joe Demko Member

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    Just two minutes from sanity.
    It strikes me that some of our members here are having crow for dinner tonight...maybe with a little slab of humble pie for dessert. IMO, it'd be a nice gesture for some folks to man up and apologize to Curt; even if only by PM (though you did insult his product publicly).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2008
  23. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    Legal in AZ...would REALLY drive a metal detector nuts!
     
  24. DFW1911

    DFW1911 Member

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    I'm one :eek:.

    I basically dismissed this outright after watching the demos on their site.

    The fact that someone can draw and thrust (most likely faster than I can draw and fire) is more than a bit disconcerting.

    I'm looking forward to the rest of the review: great work so far.

    Take care,
    DFW1911
     
  25. TimboKhan

    TimboKhan Moderator

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    Well, I still think his website was silly and full of goofy hyperbole, but I will eat my words about the product. I guess it just goes to show that one does not necessarily reflect the other.

    Seriously though, if this is a good product, and if Curt is a decent guy, why don't we High Road up and help him figure out a way to present his product in a reasonable, non mall-ninjaish way, preferably one that doesn't include nipple shots of the models and mentions of Green Beret testing. In order to atone for my earlier mocking, I would be willing to donate some of my writing skills, and maybe we could get someone else to throw in some tps on how to redesign.
     
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