Texas 30.06- what is legal notice?

[Grayrock]

Went to a restaurant. Walked in door, sat at table. Ate lunch. Paid bill & walked out. On the wall beside the door (going OUT) was a 30.06 sign. Aren't they supposed to be in "plain sight"? It was NOT visible from outside. What do you think?

 

[mes227]

Here's what the law says. The last item, "is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public", when taken in context, means visible upon entry. Now, if the sign is clearly visible upon entry and you just didn't notice it, you were trespassing. If it was located such that it's not clearly visible upon entry, you were not. That's a very subtle - but critical - distinction and the law in Texas hangs on subtlety. Keep in mind that purple marks on trees or growing any food crops (a stock of corn) services proper legal notice against trespass without any signage at all.
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"Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun;" or

(2) A sign posted on the property that:
(a) "includes" the above language in both English and Spanish;
(b) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(c) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

 

[Grayrock]

The sign was not clearly visible upon entry. You have to enter the establisment, take 2-3 steps past the threshold of the door. then turn around and look over your right shoulder to see the sign in the inside wall beside the door. If you come in the back door, you would never see it if you left the same way you came in.

 

[belercous]

If a person gets crimminaly charged in this sort of situation, and the DA intends to press the charges, it will likely be a "jury" question.

 

[Dokkalfar]

I would say that it isn't properly displayed to be visible prior to/on entry. But as belercous says, if the DA didn't get the right coffee this morning, you're fate is up to the jury.

I'm assuming everything else about the sign was correct: text size, color, what it said, english & spanish, etc?

 

[Grayrock]

I saw this sign at a hospital.

From my understanding, that does not prohibit anyone with a valid CHL from carrying their weapon into this facility. Am I right? Since it does not conform to the 30.06 rule it does not apply to legal concealed carry. I call it a "feelgood" sign for the general populace.

 

[razorback2003]

What happens if the sign is valid? Are you then guilty of 'carrying a weapon' in Texas and it is like you don't even have a license? Or is there a smaller fine or none at all?

 

[allaroundhunter]

Deleted, just re checked and I was wrong

 

[Texan Scott]

Grayrock,

NO. This sign (on a hospital) does NOT permit CHL holders to carry. It likely indicates that the hospital has a state criminal mental health unit inside somewhere, making the regulation of handguns comparable to carry in a jailhouse. If found with a firearm, you will almost certainly have it confiscated and/or be prosecuted.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

NO. This sign (on a hospital) does NOT permit CHL holders to carry. It likely indicates that the hospital has a state criminal mental health unit inside somewhere, making the regulation of handguns comparable to carry in a jailhouse. If found with a firearm, you will almost certainly have it confiscated and/or be prosecuted.

I am going to take exception with this interpretation. This sign does not meet the requirements for giving notice to CHLs under Section 30.06 of the Texas Penal Code. If a sign does not give notice to CHLs under 30.06, then a CHL may carry a handgun there UNLESS the hospital falls under Section 46.03 (Places Weapons Prohibited}. That part of the code reads:

Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;
(2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress;
(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;
(4) on the premises of a racetrack;
(5) in or into a secured area of an airport; or
(6) within 1,000 feet of premises the location of which is designated by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice as a place of execution under Article 43.19, Code of Criminal Procedure, on a day that a sentence of death is set to be imposed on the designated premises and the person received notice that:
(A) going within 1,000 feet of the premises with a weapon listed under this subsection was prohibited; or
(B) possessing a weapon listed under this subsection within 1,000 feet of the premises was prohibited.

So if the hospital was run by an educational institution or if it was part of the government court or offices utilized by the court, you would have to intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carry a handgun there in order to break the law. The sign above doesn't really tell you the answer to that question. It could be posted from before the law changed for hospitals in 2007. It could be part of whatever signage the company that owns that hospital puts on every hospital in 20 states. There is no question the sign is not good notice for Section 30.06. I think you can also make a good argument that the sign does not give sufficient notice to give you knowledge you are carrying on a place prohibited by Section 46.03 as well. However, whether you would be reckless in not investigating further after seeing the sign is the kind of question that might make it to a jury.

Of course, if you don't want to be a pioneer in precedents for CHLs, then the safe bet is to not carry there.

 

[SMMAssociates]

Just IMHO, that sign on the hospital wouldn't deter me....

But don't take that as a legal opinion - I'm not a lawyer, although I do drive by a Holiday Inn Express at least a couple times a week....

I had a hilarious moment at DFW a while back. Inside the sterile area (actually a connecting flight layover), I stopped at a Friday's for lunch. BIG "No Firearms" sign. Might have conformed to 30.06, but I was too busy laughing....

Then, I walked across the hall to the gate area to talk to the agent for a minute. WAY out of compliance "No Firearms" sign on the desk. I asked her why they bothered. "No idea"....

The way DFW is set up, there are multiple entrances into the sterile areas, with TSA screeners all over the place. However, it was designed before all this Security Theater was in place, and it'd be fairly trivial to shoot oneself by that and get to the gate I was referring to.

I guess the PTB figured that the Criminals and Terrorists would see the sign on the gate desk and go home....

****

My favorite sign, a couple years ago, in a restaurant near DFW, to the effect of "If you are carrying a firearm without a license, you're in deep stuff. Otherwise, enjoy your meal."

Regards,