Thank you - i have purchased a 44

[Trent]

Question:

Say I want to zero this scope (and sights, since they're WAY off), and take the "human" element out as much as possible.

How do I even go about shooting a gun like this from the bench? Sandbag?

I've never shot a pistol supported before... ever.

I've shot standing, kneeling, and even prone, but not off a bag.

 

[blaisenguns]

An a bench, with a sandbag yes. They make special pistol bench rests too.

 

[Hammerdown77]

Make some sandbags out of the cutoff legs of old canvas or denim pants. Fill them with sand, and use those big zip ties to close off the ends. Make several; at least two for the gun, maybe one to put under your wrists and one under your elbows, depending on the height of the bench. You want the front lower corner of the frame and frame barrel intersection jammed firmly into the bag. Try to not have any other part of the barrel supported by the bag, all of the support for the gun should be on the front and lower part of the frame (basically, everything between the basepin and the front of the trigger guard. Some people rest the butt of the gun on a bag. That's fine, but keep in mind that will probably affect your POI when you shoot from a position without the butt of the gun supported.

Grip is critical when shooting for small groups, and trying to zero sights. It needs to be the same every shot. This can sometimes be a problem shooting off a rest, because you're not supporting the weight of the gun with your grip, and the pressure and position of your hands can vary shot to shot. One thing I like to do is establish my grip with the gun unrested, just a few inches above the bags, so I'm holding the entire weight of the gun, then lower it down and press it into the bags, being careful not to change my grip pressure. Do this with every shot, so it is the same. Vertical stringing on the target is a good indicator of changing grip pressure on the gun from shot to shot.

 

[CraigC]

What he said, except that denim bags won't last very long. You can use them for base and arm bags but the one directly under the sixgun needs to be leather. I made mine 12yrs ago with suede bought from the craft store. They've held up just fine to constant use.

 

[98Redline]

One other small thing to point out when sandbagging a sixgun. I prefer to only have the front of the frame supported by the bag and the grip only supported by my hands. Using this method, the gun recoils naturally and I see no POI change between supported and unsupported. Just make sure your front sandbag is tall enough that the butt of the gun is a good 4-6" off of the bench.....especially if you are wrapping your pinky under the bottom of the grip.

On recoil the barrel will come up and the grip will move downward and crush your pinky between the bottom of the grip and the bench.

It took me exactly one shot to figure this out. Unfortunately it was one shot with a 320gr hard cast slug and a max load of H110 on a concrete bench. Felt like someone hit my pinky with a ball peen hammer.

 

[Trent]

OUCH! That would smart.

The reason I asked was for that very reason. All the benches at my range are poured concrete; it took me one shot of a 300 win mag to realize that I couldn't keep my elbow on the bench. Took most of the skin right off, bled like a stuck pig.

Oddly enough, my support hand is bruised and sore today (2 days after shooting). All of my joints in my support hand ache, but the pinky is very sore from the bottom of the grip getting me, and my index finger is still swollen from that trigger guard, and I can't hardly bend it. The pad of my hand behind my pinky is also bruised.

Strange, but my strong hand isn't sore at all. My hold keeps my wrist in a straight line so the recoil just traveled straight back up my arm. I'd figure that hand would have taken most of the punishment, but it was my support hand ended up getting beat up, from the gun rotating upward. (This tells me I need to refine my grip... or get grips that suit me better)

Interested to see how it compares when I shoot it with the scope mounted. I'm going to let my hand heal up 100% though, so it'll be a week before I take it back out again.

Today I have two people coming over for a training class, then we'll hit the range and do some live fire. Plan on revisiting that 357 mag w/ 158 gr. load after we're done, see how it handles with the new Hogue grip I put on it. That thing fits my hand a LOT better than the stock one did (and it's a bit longer)!

 

[Hammerdown77]

All of my joints in my support hand ache, but the pinky is very sore from the bottom of the grip getting me, and my index finger is still swollen from that trigger guard, and I can't hardly bend it. The pad of my hand behind my pinky is also bruised.

On stuff that has sharp and fast recoil, you might want to avoid putting any smaller fingers under the butt of the gun. For the reason you discovered.

Check out this article. I don't put my support hand thumb up on the recoil shield unless it's a light recoiling gun, and most of the time I curl it down over the top of the strong hand thumb. The finger in front of the trigger guard, I've tried it both ways, and it really depends on the grip configuration as to whether it's effective or useful. It gets your hand up higher on the gun, but if there is enough space behind the trigger guard for your middle finger (of the support hand) to sneak up in there, it's gonna get pinched when the gun recoils. The finger forward grip seems to feel best with muzzle heavy guns.
http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?tocid=441&magid=31


Also, with semi-autos I use an isosceles stance, and both arms are pretty much fully extended, gun right out in the centerline of my body. With heavy kickers though, I find it better to angle slightly clockwise, right foot more behind the body, drop the elbow of the support hand arm a bit and use some "push pull" for isometric tension. I guess this is kind of a Weaver stance. Push pull definitely helps with hard hitters like 454, 475, and 500. I don't have a lot of mass in my hands, arms, and shoulders, so anything I can do to put tension on the gun helps.

 

[CraigC]

98Redline makes good points too. I only let the butt of the gun rest on a lower bag if it's a .22 or other light recoiling cartridge. Been there, done that with the mashed finger too! I even bent the lanyard ring on one of my Bisleys because there wasn't enough room between the butt and the bench.

Note that Seyfried's thumb is on the side of the recoil shield. You definitely want to place it where it will glance off during recoil. As in the pic I posted. Seyfried is a master at his craft and no one ever made a mistake by heeding his advice. One of his best articles. Unfortunately, literature on 'how' to shoot is hard to come by, particularly with pictures. Brian Pearce has done some excellent articles in Handloader on proper hold and bench technique.