Quantcast

That pistol which you hate to love!

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by ApacheCoTodd, May 25, 2018.

  1. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,698
    Location:
    Arizona
    NOT - the one you "love to hate" as is the case with my Glock 30!:evil:

    No, I'm talking about the one which you love but are ashamed, embarrassed or otherwise put-out by your affinity for it.

    "Love to hate" is to revel in an appreciation for something which has wormed itself into your good graces in spite of previously held points of view, biases or long held truisms. You have found that its merits have slowly broken down your prejudices and yet you continue to berate it for sport or entertainment if not actual fact-base evaluation.

    "Hate to love" is having an undeniable appreciation for something which is outright morally, ethically or otherwise offensive and leaves you sincerely wishing you could stick to your guns (P.I.) and turn your back on it but DAMMIT, the draw is too strong.

    My Hate-To-Love is currently someone else's cast-off Norinco 213.

    A 213 is a manual saftied Chinese Model 54 which is a Chinese take on a Tokarev TT.
    OR
    It is a Chinese take on an Egyptian TokagyptM58 being a Hungarian take on their own Model48 being a take on the Russian TT.

    Stir in 9mm and safeties; sometimes fore-aft and sometime vice-versa and you end up at the Norinco attempt to take advantage of the American "Surplus" market before the boom was lowered on it. IMG_0413.JPG

    To further muddy the waters, some 213 safeties have screw stops (which you WANT though uglier) and some have 9mm accommodating spacers in the frame for slimmer front to rear mags while still others have standard frames with spacers in the mag... NEVER interchangeable unless the frame spacer is removed or added as necessary. Some have standard grip profiles while others have mongo grips which must surely be too large for diminutive Chinese hands.

    If you have spacer mags you simply change the barrel and mags and your 213 is 7.62. Sort of.

    Not weird enough yet?
    Make it a .38 Super or 9x23!

    Anyhow, at this point, the un-initiated are scratching their heads and making note of one thing: "Ain't never gonna buy me one of them thar headaches!"

    In that case, my work here is done since now I want a bevy, passel, murder or bushel of these rascals and I see that sadly, the prices are finally rising on these red-headed step children of the TT universe.

    The "initiated" on the other hand are probably gnashing their teeth and cursing future unborn generations of my progeny for the factual failings, minutial misleadings and outright consumer corrupting disinformation above.

    Either way, chime in!

    What's to love though, you say, after all my muddleheaded observations above?
    Here's a couple-three somethin's to love:
    -Forged frame and slide.
    -TT simplicity and near genius of design.
    -Hammer forged barrel.
    -Sweet baby hey-sys reliability and accuracy.
    -DAMN PRETTY and worthy of the 20 minutes of renaissance wax it got.
    -GREAT oversized grip correcting that overhand-milking-the-steel-udder ergos of an original TT.
    -Super slim size - excepting the aforementioned grips.
    -A safety which is WAAAAAAAAAY better than purity Nazis would have you believe though it IS intuitively bass-ackwards.
    -A trigger reminiscent of nothing so much as a good crisp service 1911.
    -One of the best overall designed single action hammer operations EVER!
    And more... and more....
    -A very gratifying pinkie rest on the mags of this particular offering gives that digit a rest from a day of secret pinkie waves at the local Starbucks... Heeled and heeled!
    -Oh yeah - A lanyard loop. I have always been queer for the nod to utility of a lanyard loop on a handgun, a bail on a knife or sling swivels on a rifle.

    So - what's my problem with it? Why do I skulk to and from the truck and only shoot in the deep desert among accepting and nonjudgmental friends?
    I LOATHE COMMIES, their spawn, their exported ideals and the products sucked up around the world which continue to underwrite the operating expenses of the evilest of empires.

    This my friends is a quandary, a conundrum and a contemplative quagmire.

    I HATE loving this gun and can't even play it off as a lost token from the Reagan, Thatcher, Pope JP and Wałęsa - Jedi-like victory over those Ruskies or a Chinese Vietnam bring-back.

    It remains undeniably, unalterably and most humiliatingly a rigid reminder of the Chicom success at "commercially" worming their way into the West in general, America in particular and my own damn home most particularly.

    Hi, my name is Todd and I love a ChiCom commercial gun... It's been, well, forever since my last one...."
     
    saiga308, chicharrones, RPZ and 2 others like this.
  2. Tallball

    Tallball Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,579
    Mine is uglier. I traded something I didn't want for it. Someone apparently shot it a whole lot before I got it. It's been reliable for the few hundred rounds I've shot through it. I neither love it nor hate it. It's a good solid pistol, but its sights and overall size are a bit small for me to shoot my best with it.

     
    ApacheCoTodd likes this.
  3. Tallball

    Tallball Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,579
    If there's one I hate to love, it's probably my Kel-Tec P3AT 380acp. It was cheap. It's ugly. The company is not renowned for making fancy guns. It doesn't fit my hand well. If I shoot 50 rounds through it, my knuckle will be a little bloody.

    But I've had it for five years or so and it's been 100% reliable with every kind of ammo I've shot through it. I can shoot it rapidly and well at seven yards. And it's soooo easy to carry. Yeah, it's not a BBQ gun. I never show it off. Maybe it's kind of like how my co-worker in the olden days would never let us meet his girlfriend. One time he drunkenly admitted it was because of how ugly she was (true story).

     
    Legionnaire and ApacheCoTodd like this.
  4. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2008
    Messages:
    6,264
    Location:
    SouthEastern FL
    I have a Jennings J22 I bought new back in '87 that's never been fired at a public range. But it's actually a pretty little thing (nickle-plated) that shoots very straight and runs reliably. No one's ever seen me carry it, but it has been carried before.

    I have a Grendel P10 that I actually kind of want to carry. For one thing, I know the magazine won't come loose (being left-handed, my mag-releases get exposed to bumps against things from time to time when I carry strong side.) It feels good in the hand, and will run rock-solid-reliably for exactly one magazine. It's tight fittings will foul it up after that but, with no option for a magazine-switch, one mag is all you're gonna get in a fight, anyway.

    Those are probably the two "least-desirable" guns I have that I find the hardest to consider offloading (I wouldn't get much for either of them, anyway.)
     
    ApacheCoTodd likes this.
  5. Count Les Neins

    Count Les Neins Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2017
    Messages:
    23
    Mine is a Para 14-45. Had lots of work done to it, done a little armoring on it myself, dag blasted thing is still
    just not shooting right. And I keep workin' it, in the possibly vain hopes that it will some day just be the gun I want it to be...
     
    ApacheCoTodd likes this.
  6. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    17,428
    I'm with Tallball: it would have to be my P3AT. I got it, after resisting the idea for a number of years, because I really wanted the smallest, lightest .380 out there (pure pocket carry), and the P3AT was it. It won't win any beauty contests, has a heavy, never will be smooth, trigger, pretty much non-existent sights, more sharp edges than a drawer filled with knives, and a finish that can only be compared to a well used, wartime issued surplus rifle. Only have one or two photos of it and rarely even mention it when discussing other .380s I own. But it still works every time I use it and it is extremely concealable 24/7. What's there not to love!

    YTZ4UAK.jpg

    mQ71eRf.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
    toivo and NIGHTLORD40K like this.
  7. milemaker13

    milemaker13 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2013
    Messages:
    794
    Location:
    Chicago suburbs
    I love my buckmark. It's a lot of fun, but I always feel the need to qualify/defend myself when the RSO or others come by, see me shootin' a .22 and figure I must be new here. Lol..

    Does that qualify here?
     
  8. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,698
    Location:
    Arizona
    Yup - that gets it!;)


    Todd.
     
  9. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,698
    Location:
    Arizona
    Yeah - that's why we need to wear a; "My other gun is a 10mm!" tee shirt to the range.:)

    Todd.
     
    milemaker13 likes this.
  10. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,698
    Location:
    Arizona
    Yup, decorum, rules and dammit, simple good taste and manners keep me from repeating what a couple of super-hero friends of mine say when they see me grab my LCP!
    Can't ALL be Dirty Harry, doggone it.

    Todd.
     
  11. Iggy

    Iggy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,247
    Location:
    Wyoming
    Tupperware framed automatics.. I packed revolvers for 50 years and Itchy for 45 years. Somehow we have come up with 4 Kahrs for EDC.

    Promise you won't tell anyone...
     
  12. Mizar

    Mizar Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,410
    Location:
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    You do realize that mechanically, TT pistols are basically just a copy of the 1911, right? It's just made as simple to manufacture as it could.
     
  13. Shimitup

    Shimitup Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    768
    Location:
    Houston
    Probably My old stainless Ruger MKll P85. It's the fattest behemoth 9 in the safe, I hate the DA/SA transition, my CZ85 and S&W 6906 are much better in that regard. It does feel much better with the Hogue grips I installed a couple years ago. I suppose the feel of confidence wrapping my fingers around it when things go bump in the night, I know that it will absolutely run, probably even if I used it for a hammer or ran over it with my truck.
     
    ApacheCoTodd likes this.
  14. PO2Hammer

    PO2Hammer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    3,318
    Location:
    MINNESOTA
    Those are s'mugly pistols.
     
    ApacheCoTodd likes this.
  15. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2016
    Messages:
    4,107
    First thing which comes to mind for me are my Glocks. Can’t say I enjoy polymer frames in balance, absolutely hate the aesthetic, but they run well and shoot well, as well as anything I’ve ran, so I carry them regularly.

    Digging a little deeper, I’ll admit I hate loving my P97’s, and frankly, my P224’s. The P224 is about as heavy and thick as a compact pistol can get, and the decocker is positioned where the slide catch is located on many other models - so I’m prone to do NOTHING by depressing the decocker when I mean to release the slide. Absolutely love that pistol, however. My P97 was a whim purchase in ‘98, it was $238 with tax, after rebate. Huge and clunky, the slide LOOKS like it would be loose, the frame LOOKS like it would be slick (gloss finish) but it’s incredibly accurate, as reliable as a Swiss watch, and recoils smoother than almost any other pistol I’ve ever fired. Absolutely love this one too - although my wife kinda commandeered it from me about 8yrs ago, but I’m glad it’s getting use and making her happy.
     
    ApacheCoTodd likes this.
  16. Eugen

    Eugen Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    113
    Location:
    Rural Illinois
    I sometimes love and sometimes hate my Crvenza Zastava M70 pistol which is basically a smaller version of a TT33, but chambered in 32acp or 7,65mm for the purists. Like a TT33, it is built like a tank and is just about as heavy. It's an odd ball for sure, but at times I enjoy pulling it out of the back of the safe and shooting it at the range.
     
    chicharrones and ApacheCoTodd like this.
  17. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,698
    Location:
    Arizona
    Slide fork take-down.
    Nearly shrouded yet completely accessible hammer.
    Tool-less grip removal.
    Slide-out hammer assembly.
    Feed lips in the hammer assembly - anyone tossing 1911 mags for being tweaked gets THAT one.
    Field stripping without particularly positioning the slide or removing the barrel lug before the slide.
    No pissy grip safety.

    If it's "... basically just a copy..." it carries a lot of features that were forgotten on the 1911....

    Wait one cotton pickin' minute here!
    I will NOT have you maneuver me into a position of not only defending this Commie trash but in fact lauding it and backhandedly berating my beloved 1911s. NOPE, not gonna do that, dammit.

    Todd.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
    bikerdoc, Striker and Mizar like this.
  18. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,698
    Location:
    Arizona
    That's a curious little pistol that I don't recall ever hearing of before now.

    Todd.
     
  19. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,698
    Location:
    Arizona
    I keep a nearly unfired P-85 around against all odds too.
    Partly for me it is nostalgia as that particular Ruger represented an exciting time in pistols and my career more directly. Too, I dig that it was an attempt by Ruger to build a Service Auto and hell's-bells.... It has a lanyard loop!

    Todd.
     
    Shimitup likes this.
  20. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    5,046
    Location:
    South Eastern Illinois
    My Ruger SR9C fits that catagory:
    Much more pleasant to shoot than my 1911s
    Ambi safety
    Cheap ammo
    High capacity
    Forward serrations
    Light rail
    Accurate.
    Compact
    Good sights
    Reliable 100%
    Loaded chamber indicator
    ........whats wrong with me? I should be carrying this!
     
  21. entropy

    entropy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    6,247
    Location:
    G_d's Country, WI
    Glocks; I hate the way they look, the way they feel in my hand, but I love what I can do to the target with them.
     
    Hokie_PhD and chicharrones like this.
  22. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,369
    Location:
    Mechanicsville, VA
    My Heritage Rough Rider. I love it because it was a dirt cheap fully operational and cool looking from a distance gun, plus it has the Colt cock.

    I hate it because it's about as accurate as CNN, and because folks think it's cool you're shooting an old SA revolver until you show them what it is.
     
    bikerdoc, TN Outlaw, Striker and 2 others like this.
  23. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,698
    Location:
    Arizona
    Me too with the Glocks but they are: love to hate rather than hate to love with me.

    How in THE hell can I shoot a pistol so well when I dislike it so much?


    Todd.
     
    chicharrones and entropy like this.
  24. gotboostvr

    gotboostvr Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,943
    Location:
    Buckeye Country
    I've got one, I'll add a pic later...

    It was a Norinco "Model Of The 1911A1" that I sunk too much money into.

    LPA adjustable rear (and GI front sight) Storm Lake threaded barrel, Wilson grip safety, hammer, trigger, slide stop, barrel bushing, full length guide rod, and thumb safety. Ed Brown main spring housing and mag well. EGW mag release. New wolf 18lbs springs. Drilled and tapped the bottom of the frame for a rail. The slide and frame got parkerized, and everything else including the rail is left bare stainless steel.

    It's such a goofy looking Frankengun. Little teeny target sights, tacticooled out everything else. Completly mismatched.

    But it makes steel ring at 50yards like no other.

    Edit: here's the amalgamation...
    Double edit: I am STRUGGLING to post a pic anymore.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
    ApacheCoTodd likes this.
  25. Shimitup

    Shimitup Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    768
    Location:
    Houston
    There have been a few floating around several LGS, priced a little high. Still, I wants.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice