Quantcast

The 1911 is still being used!

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Texas10mm, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. mgmorden

    mgmorden Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,880
    Location:
    Charleston, South Carolina
    Don't get me wrong - I LOVE the 1911, but even just look at this thread.

    One person's 1911 was great . . . after they changed mags (also mentioning that a friend's Kimber had issues).

    Another person's was great after they changed out a spring.

    My Philippine made 1911 is great too . . . after I changed out an extractor (I also have an STI double-stack 2011 that has ran flawlessly for 1000's of rounds - but it also cost nearly $3,000).

    When they're tuned right the 1911 is a GREAT connoisseur's gun, but there's no denying that the design can be a bit finicky. The gun is great for an enthusiast but for a solider who just needs a tool, there are better choices. For my purposes, I'd prefer a 1911 over either a Beretta 92 or SIG P320, but for the Army's purposes, I think they made the right choice.

    It'd be like asking if you'd like to drive a fully restored 1968 Mustang or a Toyota Prius. Now which one makes sense as a company fleet vehicle? Different problem, different solution.
     
    ATLDave and NIGHTLORD40K like this.
  2. Jimster

    Jimster Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    675
    Location:
    IL
    Very true. I love and carried 1911s but now I carry a Sig P320 in .45acp.
     
  3. rpenmanparker

    rpenmanparker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,456
    Must we believe that precisely manufactured parts meeting the proper designs, dimensions, and tolerances can’t be unerringly assembled into a fully functional 1911? That such parts can’t be mixed and matched without sacrificing functionality?

    What was all the grade school history about the Industrial Revolution and standardization of components assembled into a whole device about if not the 1911? I just don’t understand it. At the proper tolerances gun parts including those for the 1911 should be able to be assembled into an essentially perfect gun without hand fitting. Why is it not that way?

    I’m not saying that all part brands should be interchangeable, but just that within a given manufacturer or specification among multiple manufacturers completely functional guns should be able to be built off of a table full of parts. We are too good at forging, machining, molding, casting, etc. for that to not be true.
     
  4. drband

    drband Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,045
    Location:
    GA
    Could it be that there is now a plethora of ammunition choices and magazine choices not available for the original 1911s? Making all guns function with all ammo/projectiles and all magazines is a pretty tall order.
    After all, sigs use only sig magazines. That takes a lot of the variables affecting reliability off the table. I guarantee that there are ammo choices that don’t run well in a sig 320. How many times have you heard “find what your gun likes and run that”?
    Every modern manufacturer puts out a few guns with minor flaws. Most will make it good. I have heard of Glock, Sig, S&W, SA, Ruger, Taurus, and a host of other manufacturers issuing recalls to fix manufacturing issues. I think a well made production 1911 is of good enough (even excellent) quality to be considered as reliable as more “modern” pistols. Their big drawbacks are weight and capacity— not reliability.
    I would take a bet that any good 1911 manufacturer would guarantee their product’s reliability if you were restricted to their specified magazines and specified ammo/projectiles.

    Those of us who like 1911s DO like to tweak them for our own purposes (ammo, projectiles, favorite mags, handloads for target or defense or other).
     
    vba, NIGHTLORD40K and rpenmanparker like this.
  5. rpenmanparker

    rpenmanparker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,456
    Good insight.
     
    Texas10mm likes this.
  6. lysanderxiii

    lysanderxiii Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2015
    Messages:
    1,610
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Not quite.

    The Army was looking to replace the M1911A1 with something in 9mm as far back as 1953, even before 7.62mm became NATO standard. Economics dictated otherwise, with thousands of M1911A1, most less than 10 years old and lightly used, why buy more pistols?
     
    drband likes this.
  7. tuckerdog1

    tuckerdog1 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2005
    Messages:
    969
    Yeah, I love the 1911, but there is a saying I've read somewhere ( and I'm sure I won't get it exactly right ) that I'd have to agree with: You show your Colts & Kimbers to your friends. You show your enemies your Glock.

    Tuckerdog1
     
  8. rpenmanparker

    rpenmanparker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,456
    I would be embarrassed to show a Glock to anyone.
     
    brunowbe, NIGHTLORD40K and drband like this.
  9. Trey Veston

    Trey Veston Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2017
    Messages:
    1,049
    I was issued a 1911 in the US Navy in 1989. I got out in 1992, then joined the Army National Guard in 1994 and was issued an M9.
     
  10. Drail

    Drail Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,985
    The reason aftermarket parts will not "drop in" a 1911 is because there are so many manufacturers today and they all seem to be working off of a different blueprint. The variations and tolerances are all over the map. It seems as if some of them got their blueprints from Wikipedia........ It's not that they cannot hold the tolerances tightly enough - they just don't bother.
     
    vba, Texas10mm, drband and 2 others like this.
  11. rskent

    rskent Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,522
    Location:
    The land of blue sky and sunshine
    Because companies are driven by sales departments not engineering departments. Sales people seem to always think that something needs to be better, cooler, slicker to sell well. Engineering is left to “make it work”. Take Kimber for example. They make fine guns, but in a lot of different configurations, and with fine tolerances. Unfortunately, with a higher failure rate. What do you think would happen if Kimber only made one model and like the 1911’s of old, it rattled?
     
  12. rskent

    rskent Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,522
    Location:
    The land of blue sky and sunshine
    I guess that some people just don’t appreciate the elegance of a simple tool. You probably don’t like rocks either. :D
     
    <*(((>< and drband like this.
  13. rpenmanparker

    rpenmanparker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,456
    Sure, I agree. I wouldn’t propose that aftermarket would just drop in and work. But if there were two or three contractors supplying the military or a large LE organization, specifications should be tight enough under the contract to allow interchangeability.
     
  14. rpenmanparker

    rpenmanparker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,456
    Just the ugly ones.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  15. rpenmanparker

    rpenmanparker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,456
    About the Glocks, I am just having a little fun with you folks. I should have been using emojis to make it clear I’m just messing with you. :)

    True, I don’t like them for aesthetic reasons. Blocky, stocky, clunky compared to almost any other gun, especially 1911s. And I don’t care for the trigger pull even compared to my SR9 which is less than wonderful itself. I’m just a single action pistol guy down at the heart of the matter.

    This is a good thread. I don’t want to be the cause of it going off the rails.
     
    Spats McGee and drband like this.
  16. drband

    drband Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,045
    Location:
    GA
    I want a 10mm 1911.
    That is all.
     
  17. rpenmanparker

    rpenmanparker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,456
    Check your Christmas stockings. I have it on good authority...
     
    drband likes this.
  18. drband

    drband Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,045
    Location:
    GA
    LOL!:rofl:
    I wish!
     
  19. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,344
    Location:
    Free State USA
    Perhaps they have not forgotten about the Moro warriors and caliber effectiveness.
     
    Mike .45 and drband like this.
  20. Robert101

    Robert101 Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2010
    Messages:
    993
    I have one in 10MM and at least one in 45 Automatic. I do love my 1911's as tools and toys. I tend to carry my G27 mostly, but on occasion will haul around a full size 1911. I just love guns.
     
  21. cheygriz

    cheygriz member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    3,550
    Location:
    High up in the Rockies
    Regardless of all the ranting by 1911 and ,45 enthusiasts, they are gone and never coming back. Just like the
    Trapdoor , the Krag and the Springfield.
     
  22. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    8,242
    Into general military issue? Probably right, and for entirely sensible reasons.

    As commercially-viable products for shooters who get to choose their own guns? Preposterous.
     
    vba likes this.
  23. rpenmanparker

    rpenmanparker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,456
    Why are the reasons sensible? If you make the 1911 frame out of polymer and modify it for double stack and the slide and barrel for any specified caliber, I think you have a nearly perfect handgun. Produce it in whichever size is appropriate for the use with some slight reengineering to guarantee functionality in that size and, voila, there is little left to complain about. Manufacture it to the necessary tight tolerances for reliability. The necessity of condition 1 carry is no drawback IMO. Before anyone says, "But that's not a 1911," I beg to differ. The essential features of single action and hammer fired are preserved.
     
    vba likes this.
  24. cheygriz

    cheygriz member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    3,550
    Location:
    High up in the Rockies
    They will always be available vfor civilian use, just like the Colt SAA and cap & ball revolvers are.

    Many peoploe, myself included, love old historical arms. I still have two Match Grade (bullseye) 1911s, and I love to shoot them. but thst doesn't make them viable for military/LE usage.
     
  25. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    8,242
    Robert, all that stuff is expensive. Stuff like the barrel link is always going to make the gun more sensitive to fitting than an inherently-sloppy design like a Glock or Sig 320.

    I say that as someone whose CC gun is most often a commander-length 1911, and who thinks, in terms of pure shooting performance, 1911-based guns are very tough to beat.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice