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The 336 Club

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by AStone, Feb 24, 2007.

  1. saturno_v

    saturno_v Member

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    I do not have the figures at 75 yards.

    Fired both from a rifle, give or take at 100 yards your regular 30-30 round 150 grainer has the same energy of the 357 at the muzzle PLUS the muzzle energy of a 9 mm pistol round (circa 1400 ft/lb in total)

    A 357 round 158 grains at 100 yards drops to ~ 700 ft/lb

    To this you have to calculate a more reduced frontal section and a WAY better sectional density of the 30-30 round that allow WAY better penetration.

    As I said in my post in the other thread, a 30-30 ballistically put behind a 44 Mag fired from a rifle, forget the 357...

    BUT at 75 yards you can probably drop a whitetail deer as easily with a 357 or with a 30-30 (I do not have direct experience in this so I do not know)....but this doesn't mean they are ballistically equivalent at 75 yards...not a chance...
     
  2. AStone

    AStone Member

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    Someone will be along shortly with those figures.

    Until then, grab a drink from the fridge.

    The range is out back.

    Nem
     
  3. RobertFBurnett

    RobertFBurnett Member

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    Hey all, some of you have been real helpful on another thread that helped me decide on a 336, and I will be joining yet another forum cult in April...this one!

    Got my eye on a Big5 special 30-30 336(c?) Was wondering if any of you had some pics handy of mounted peep sights, Williams or otherwise? The unmounted pics in catalogs aren't really helping.

    Thank you all!

    RFB
     
  4. Dave Markowitz

    Dave Markowitz Member

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    Manny,

    You need two tools: a brass punch and a mallet or hammer.

    First fix the gun in a vise or clamp. Next, remove the front sight hood if your rifle has one. Then put the punch against the left side of the front sight where it's dovetailed into the front sight base. Finally, use the mallet to tap on the punch and drive it to the right (the side of the rifle with the ejection port) and out.

    Put the new sight in going right to left.
     
  5. Z_Infidel

    Z_Infidel Member

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    As to .357 Magnum performance, Buffalo Bore states a muzzle velocity for their 158 gr load that places it close to .30-30 territory. However as eluded to by another poster earlier, muzzle velocity is not the whole story. Bullet construction, sectional density, and downrange velocity are big determiners in killing power and overall the .30-30 is clearly superior to the hottest .357 and .44 Magnum cartridges. Now that said, any of these is quite capable of cleanly taking deer-sized game at 75 yards (and a little beyond, I think). But the .30-30 is effective on game even more so than what its paper numbers suggest, and conventional .30-30 ammo is quite effective out to 150+ yards. Hornady's LeverEvolution ammo extends that to 200+ yards, especially fired out of a 24" XLR.

    For those interested, Hornady has a tool on their website that calculates performance of cartridges on game animals based on several criteria. You can manipulate the input properties according to various types of ammunition for rifles and handguns and form a comparison:

    http://www.hornady.com/ballistics/hits_calculator.php
     
  6. slchvac

    slchvac Member

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    What should I expect for a group out of this thing?

    Finally got the girl out for a few shots today. I was shooting Federal 150 grain 30-30 bullets. I was shooting at 100 yards open sites and not what I would call good shooting. I tried standing and sitting and ended up with a group of 18 within a 1ft area.

    How good are guys at shooting these with open sites? Am I doing something wrong or just need more range time?

    I do have to say the thing is a blast to shoot.
     
  7. ZeSpectre

    ZeSpectre Member

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    Shooting from a not too sturdy benchrest
    100 yards
    Bottom set was my 336 (top set was my Remington 7600)
    100yardsightin_071006.gif
     
  8. Z_Infidel

    Z_Infidel Member

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    slchvac: If you can put all your shots into a paper plate-sized target at 100 yards with iron sights that is approaching decent practical accuracy. Using a good rest and slightly better sights than the factory ones you should be able to tighten that up a bit. Most 336 rifles are capable of smaller groups than that -- and the XLR is capable of MOA.

    When shooting for groups or to zero your sights make sure you allow the barrel to cool after every third round or so, as a hot barrel may cause vertical stringing of your shots, especially on models with barrel bands.
     
  9. MannyNY

    MannyNY Member

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    Dave M

    Thanks again Dave - good info - seems simple enough.
     
  10. dsdanger

    dsdanger Member

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    Would any of you have any qualms about shooting that new Hornady Lever-Evo out of a 1948 336? The gun fires the standard 30-30 just fine (at least so far). Who knows, it may be time to retire this old rifle, but it's just so fun to shoot.
     
  11. ckay

    ckay Member

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    My second rifle...got her when I was 12

    336.jpg
     
  12. AStone

    AStone Member

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    Ze, I came close to buying a 7600.
    I bought a 336 instead.
    Decided I like levers better than pumps.
    (Can't explain why.)

    Ckay, nice pic.
    What's that revolver?
     
  13. AStone

    AStone Member

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    Well, OK, let me try.

    Pumps work front - back - front with the weak hand,
    which also supports the fore end.

    That pull back - stop, reverse direction - push front isn't as natural for me as
    a radially rotating back-front-back flick of the strong hand
    while the weak hand maintains barrel position
    for the next shot.

    Levers put the strong hand to work
    (while not pulling a trigger)
    in a radial fashion.
    ______

    How's that?
     
  14. electrode1998

    electrode1998 Member

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    Hey J Foutian,
    Sorry I have not responded earlier, THR upgrades are giving me fits with my use of the site. I cannot use my quick links so I have to find forums manually. Major pain!!

    Any way, cool idea about the hollow space in the Ramline stock. I might add a glow stick if there is room so I would have some quick emerg. light if needed.

    Talk to ya'll later,
    e'trode
     
  15. MilsurpShooter

    MilsurpShooter Member

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    Finally got my 336 to the range, went through 40 rounds, now just have to wait for my reloading dies and I can go again next weekend lol. Got the scope on paper after the 3rd shot (darn 100 yard targets lol) and spent the other 37 shots trying to get it into the X ring (Almost there, shooting the 9/10 ring at the 1:00. Grouping was excellent however, can cover one of them with a quarter. Going to be one of my favorite guns I think
     
  16. ckay

    ckay Member

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    Thanks, it's one of those B.I.Y. powder revolvers. It's a .44 that I put together when I was 12.
     
  17. JustsayMo

    JustsayMo Member

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    30-30 LEE LOADER impressions and range report

    Out of curiosity I picked up a Lee Loader in 30-30. I was impressed by the innovation and simplicity. As an experiment I loaded a batch to compare with a load that I commonly use on my single stage press. It took me a while but once you get the technique and develop a rhythm it goes pretty well.

    For this experiment I used the scoop supplied with the kit for the powder, I weighed the charges but didn't trickle to make the uniform. Most charges were within .6 of a grain but my extreme spread gave me a full grain difference. :scrutiny:

    It felt a little odd seating a bullet in a charged case with a hammer :eek: but I was impressed how consistent I was able to keep the OAL.

    I wonder about the crimp. Pressing the cartridge down hard on the bench on the bullet tip didn't shorten them. :rolleyes:

    At the range as I expected the difference in the charges did show up over the chronograph. The using IMR 3031 with the supplied scoop the high was 1915 fps and the low 1796 fps. The average for the string was 1851 with a standard deviation of 66.18.

    For comparison, my-go to 150gr Remington JSP / IMR 3031 load is 29 grains and it averaged 2073 fps, with a standard deviation of 26.

    The accuracy was actually pretty good, producing groups about 25% bigger than my go-to load. It also printed an inch lower at 50 yards.

    This was my first experience with the Lee Loader and I must admit for less than $20 it worked pretty well. For a guy starting out it or on a tight budget it could produce some decent quality ammo inexpensively. If care was taken to produce more consistent charges by weighing them I would predict an improvement in already pretty good performance.

    I will test weighed charges in the future as well as trying the Lee Loader with Cast Bullets. Stay tuned.
     
  18. AStone

    AStone Member

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    Thought-provoking review, Mo.

    For comparison, what's your preferred reloader for .30-30?
    __________

    Last night, after a long day, after too many long days, none of which have involved a day at the range (Own my own business? What was I thinking?), I got out my 336 from the place it stays and just [strike]handled[/strike] fondled it, levering it, lowering the hammer, levering it, lowering the hammer, etc.

    Felt so good just to hold it, caress the furniture, lever it ...

    Looking forward to shooting it again. I haven't even had a chance to sight the new higher front post that XS sent out. :(
     
  19. JustsayMo

    JustsayMo Member

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    I load a vast majority of my ammo on a RCBS Rockchucker. I have a Dillon 550B that I am going to sell that will kick out hundreds of rounds per hour but 90%+ of the time I use the Rockchucker.

    My typical 30-30 procedure is lube, size & de-cap, trim & chamfer, wash & dry, prime, charge (individually weighed), seat bullets, factory crimp. I estimate that it takes between 1 & 2 minutes per round in total for each round.

    If I count my time (or equipment) it isn't good economics as factory 30-30 ammo is commonly available for ~ $0.70 / round for very good ammo and reloading slightly better ammo cost is about $0.40 / round using jacketed bullets at today's prices. Using cast bullets and pistol powders can get you under $0.20 / round.

    Beyond the minor, if any, economic savings I get a great deal of pleasure from the process, added versatility and improved performance.
     
  20. Dave Markowitz

    Dave Markowitz Member

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    Lee Hand Press

    FWIW...

    If you're looking for an inexpensive, compact, portable, reloading tool which is easier to use than the Lee Loader, check out the Lee Hand Press (scroll down a bit on that link). No mallet required.
     
  21. Brassman

    Brassman Member

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    This may not sound too remarkable for many of you, but for me it was thrilling. We took the 336 to a 100 yd range on Sat. The bench we were shooting from was very shaky and I was having trouble hitting the 4 inch orange bull from 100 yards with open sights. Everything I shot was about 6 inches high:banghead: and clustered inside about 2 inches. This may have resulted from the grade of the range though. The target was about 25-30 feet lower than the bench. Anyway, I put a target down on the ground and sat on it (the ground was damp) and used my knee to steady the rifle, and began grouping inside the bull with no other support. The bullet was 160g Leverlution and is the round I will use in the fall for deer. I was very pleased with my 336 and with myself.:)
     
  22. AStone

    AStone Member

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    B'man, that's a great story, and makes me hungry to shoot my 336.

    (I missed an op to get to the range this week due to rent gathering responsibilities, but hope to shoot it soon.)

    I don't think I could do that even with my GR's. I could with a scope, I think, but not GRs.

    What kind of results would you likely get from the same position with, say, 150 or 170 gr?
     
  23. JustsayMo

    JustsayMo Member

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    Centerfire Levergun Postal Match?

    For those needing a reason to shoot their 336 how about a postal match?

    We're having a bunch of fun shooting our Rimfire Levergun postal matches, why not do a centerfire levergun match too? For those that shoot Ranch Dog's match, this could be a warm-up for that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2008
  24. paintballdude902

    paintballdude902 Member

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    what do u guys use for a .30-30 load

    im thinking about reloading and want some loads to try
     
  25. electrode1998

    electrode1998 Member

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    Hey Mo.,
    That sounds like fun. I have never been in a postal match, how do they work?

    e'trode
     

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