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The .45ACP vs the FiveSeven for home defense ?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Alan Fud, Apr 23, 2004.

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  1. Alan Fud

    Alan Fud Member

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    Assuming the AWB is allowed to expire without being renewed (or something else taking it's place), would the FN FiveSeven make a good defensive handgun when compared to a .45ACP?
    [​IMG]
    Specifically speaking, how would twenty-one 5.7 X 28mm 31grns rounds traveling at 2,133 fps compare to eight or nine .45ACP 230grns rounds traveling at 890 fps in terms of stopping power?
     
  2. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

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    Why not get a Grendel P-30 and have thirty-one rounds of .22 Magnum?


    I'll stick with my current battery.
     
  3. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    House Gun vs Mouse Gun

    In the house...Short barreled shotgun stoked with #4 buckshot.
    Mine is a double with exposed hammers...Pumps are good. Best course of action is to have a plan...such as all family members stay put instead of
    wandering around investigating. That way, you know where everyone is.
    A single word or phrase acts as a signal for all hands to hit the deck and
    stay there until further notice. Practice it! Children sometimes forget.
    Emphasize the point that they STAY PUT.

    Get a dog. Excellent early warning system and BG location machine.
    The presence of the dog will probably be enough of a deterrent to
    send all but the most determined looking for an easier mark.

    Cell phones are also good. If you have time, call 911. It will be in your favor if it's on record that you tried to open other avenues before pulling the trigger as your last resort.

    Luck!

    Tuner
     
  4. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    The only real benefit of the fiveseven is the potential for penetrating body armor. Otherwise, the hole is going to be very small and there won't be a lot of secondary tissue damage from tumbling, or so the initial results indicate.

    You can have a fiveseven now, I believe. You just can't get the hi capacity magazines or the AP ammo.
     
  5. Erich

    Erich Member

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    I thought the problem with the FiveSeven was that it's supposedly AP, something the expiration of the AWB would have no effect on.

    Heck, why not get a short-barrelled AR - better than either a .45 or this goofy handgun round? There's little question that 55 grains travelling at 2900 fps are pretty effective on a soft target at short range, and there's plenty of info out there to show that 5.56 is less likely to dangerously overpenetrate interior walls.

    Dropping the speed down to 2100 fps and the grainage down to 31? Well, amigo, I wouldn't want to be running the experiment - I'll stick with the .45 (or the AR, or the 12-ga) until someone else proves this other thing is worth a look.

    Personally, I'm skeptical. (But interesting thread topic! :) )
     
  6. PCRCCW

    PCRCCW Member

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    Id take a Tokarev over the FiveSeven...........the 45 is my choice for home defense..........and a good one.

    Shoot well.
     
  7. longeyes

    longeyes member

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    You don't need armor-piercing. Aim at the head.

    I'll stick with a shotgun and a .45. My FiveSeven is a Beretta Neos.
     
  8. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

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    Well, if you want an almost guaranteed kill (rather than a stop) then a head shot from the FiveSeven would probably be more consistant.

    If you are planning on something more like two or three shots center of mass with a handgun, I can think of few guns I'd rather have than a full sized 1911 with expanding HPs.

    Of course, a shotgun is even better.

    I did get a chance to look over a FiveSeven when I picked up my PCR last week. He got two in and one sold about twenty seconds later. Anyone can buy one that can legally buy a handgun. Just can't get the AP ammo... or at least you can't get it very easily. The gun kind of surprised me at how toy-like it felt. A Glock feels like a Crown Vic in comparison. Trigger is very unusual... Not heavy, and very short, but it doesn't feel like there's one piece of machined steel in the trigger group.

    At $1,100, it's not for me. As Erich said, just get a shorty AR.
     
  9. Alan Fud

    Alan Fud Member

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    Wasn't really interested in the armor-piercing aspect of it. Just curious how 31grns traveling at 2,133 fps would compare to 230grns traveling at 890 fps.

    NOTE: I always thought that bigger was better until the .357SIG came along and people began to claim that it was a superior stopper than the .45ACP even though it was smaller & lighter. I have no actual experience in this area which is why I asked the question.

    If a 125grn .357SIG round is a better stopper than a 230grn .45ACP because of it's higher velocity, would the same logic apply to an even smaller round traveling even faster? I don't know.
     
  10. otomik

    otomik Member

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    if you really find a FiveSeven all that desireable over .45acp in a home defense role i think sounder defensive advice would be to move to a better neighborhood or look into the witness protection program.

    and i'm pretty sure that even after the AWB expires you won't be finding AP ammo for your FiveSeven, so it's fractionally better than a .22magnum. Even if you use the FiveSeven to good effect in a encounter i have a feeling it's "military only" mystique will bite you in the ass during your day in court.
     
  11. mondocomputerman

    mondocomputerman Member

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    That energy calculates to:

    FN: 313 FT Lbs (313 x 21 rounds) is 6573 for the gun
    45: 414 FT Lbs (404 x 9 rounds) is 3726 for the gun

    I would stick with the .45 It's a tried and proven round.
     
  12. Erich

    Erich Member

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    I was the one who brought up the AP aspect - I had been laboring under the (apparently mistaken) impression that all of the ammo for this cartridge had been banned as AP.

    I stand corrected. Sorry. :eek:

    Well, so you're looking at, basically, the ballistics of a 16" AR at 200+ yards, except with a much lighter bullet. And that's from the muzzle.

    The more I think about it, the more I think I'd rather have a .45 (in response to Alan's original Q).
     
  13. Marshall

    Marshall Member

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    For home defense, give me a cartridge that makes a big, fat hole and makes hamburger of internal organs over a skinny fast one anytime.

    :D
     
  14. rich2u

    rich2u Member

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    Heck why bother just use magsafe ammo. My 10mm with that stuff is the same power as a 44mag. 950flbs ouch!
    The 96grain is moving at 180ofps at 960flbs
    the 46 grain is moving at 2499fps at 588flbs
     
  15. RepublicanMan

    RepublicanMan member

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    THe 5-7 is available currently, a friend of mine picked one up about a month or so ago.
     
  16. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    ditto that
     
  17. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    "how would twenty-one 5.7 X 28mm 31grns rounds traveling at 2,133 fps compare to eight or nine .45ACP 230grns rounds traveling at 890 " wheres all that ammo going? to twenty one invaders or 'two to the torso and one to the brain' in a couple guys? A question like this begs training.;)
     
  18. Mr.Burke

    Mr.Burke Member

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    I just want to say I have a Five-seveN and I love it. If you are looking for stopping power this isn't really a gun for you. If you are looking to put 5 shots down range in a little over a second, accurately, than this gun is awesome.

    The 5.7x28mm blue tip sporting round compared to a 9mm Federal Hydro-shock has about the same expansion with a little more disruption plus deeper penetration. So, if you aren't happy with your Beretta 9mm with hydro-shocks and 15 rounds... maybe want 5 more rounds... go for it. You can also buy the 30 rounds extended mag, at least here in Florida I can.

    Oh, and for the AP thing... The original sporting round, distinguished by the red tip, was believed to be armor piercing to a point. 28 layers of Kevlar is what one study had said. FN Denied it but removed the ammo from the market. You can still buy them but they are really hard to find seeing as they are not manufactured any longer. I personally got the gun because I have wanted it since the Splinter Cell game series came out. Silly reason... but when you have $1271.70 to spend and you want a fancy gun with a nasty reputation, well this is the gun for you.
     
  19. Hungry Seagull

    Hungry Seagull member

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    The 57 has a bad reputation in my area. It is a beautiful weapon that appears very capable of penetrating armor... specifically LEO armor.

    Therefore given the choice at the time between the 57 and the .45 I chose the .45 because I dont want the Courts to think Im just another gang banging cop killer by simple association with the 57 which is growing in popularity on the street.

    It's a shame that I have to think these things when considering a weapon. I was considering the 57 along with several others. But ultimately the old tried and true proven .45 ACP does the job.

    Now dogs, early warning and 12, 20 gauge children works out very well indeed. In fact, using the 1760 fps magnums in my Rem 870 armored badguys dont matter at HD ranges. There will be so much energy delivered onto them that behind the vest they will suffer a injury where there is a million bleeding holes in lungs that no surgeon can ever fix behind a shattered centermass bone.

    Show me a vest that can stop that slug and keep bad guy functional. They cannot make em light enough to carry while walking, much less trying to break into home. If BG takes one I shoot and kills me.. well... it's my time. heh.
     
  20. CWL

    CWL Member

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    What has been discovered about the 5.7 round is that it does too good a job of penetrating. Just like an icepick, it makes nice small holes and then keeps on going. It doesn't yaw or break-up like .223 NATO to cause internal destruction as claimed (note, we're talking about the civilian version, not the AP round). I recall one of the earliest reports of the 5-7 deployment by police SWAT in a shootout, the Team Leader emptied his pistol at barricaded BG, managing to miss every shot -although one bullet overpenetrated the walls and hit & injured a SWAT officer on the other side...

    .45 ACP on the other hand just relies on plain old size & mass to do it's damage. It has worked for 100 years now against just about any sort of aggressor on this planet.

    I would choose .45ACP, but that's just my $0.02.
     
  21. Dumptruck

    Dumptruck Member

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    How about that Tom Brady winning the Super Bowl MVP?

    Why was this resurrected from the grave five years later? haha
     
  22. Alan Fud

    Alan Fud Member

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    Newbie wanted to share his insight with us.
     
  23. harmon rabb

    harmon rabb Member

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    If you want to shoot through light body armor, why not a tokarev? It doesn't have a rep as a 'cop killer.'
     
  24. BlindJustice

    BlindJustice Member

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    Is this a troll or a joke?

    SOme paper experts champion the 7.62x25
    blissfully ignoring the fact that the M1 .30 Carbine
    has very similar ballistics, and it proved to be the
    least effective small arms option for our soldiers in
    WWII.

    Randall
     
  25. Dan Crocker

    Dan Crocker Member

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    I really like it when we all write our
    sentences short and hit the <enter>
    key to fit it in the little 'quick reply'
    box.
    Seriously, just type, and it will fill up the whole page!
     
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