The 7.62x39 or .308 defense rifle ammo question

[Plinkeriffic]

I am trying to decide between a 7.62x39 or .308/7.62x51 defense rifle.

When I first started researching, it looked like the x39 ammo was considerably cheaper as were some reasonably reliable platforms to shoot it.

Looking around today (at least at the newly manufactured stuff), .308 is only about $.10/round more (for what seems like a better cartridge).

My question is whether either ammo type is really that much cheaper or more commonly used (esp. where milsurp is concerned) to recommend one or the other? Is .308's performance enough to offset the higher cost? How much higher?

Your insight would be greatly appreciated as I've been trying to resolve this question for some time and would like to be done with it.

Thanks for any info!

-Plink

 

[RP88]

both of those rounds - especially the full-power .308 - are going to go through the bad guy and most if not all of your house, and end up god-knows-where after that i.e. your neighbor's house/car/face.

If those are your two choices, I'd opt for HP x39.

Personally, I'd downsize in caliber to .223/5.56, or get a handgun or shotgun instead. Less likely to worry about your neighbors, and what you'll do to your house as well as theirs.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Like most of these things, it comes down to the actual bullet in use, not the cartridge as a whole.

.308 is a great short distance caliber with a proper bullet, Hornady TAP in 110gr is an example of this.

The question then becomes, are you happy with the bullet choices available in x39 vs .308?

Do the bullets you can buy for each perform as you want for the intended purpose?

If you're only going to use FMJ bullets then they are both mediocre at best for defense and you're just going to poke holes in things.

The advantage of the .308 is that you can buy it loaded with just about any bullet you can imagine while loadings for the x39 seem to be more limited.

The rifle and the cartridge are just bullet delivery mechanisms, don't get too hung up on that part.

 

[Red State]

Both rounds are great for a general defense rifle. Whether or not the .308 is worth the extra ammo money probably depends on the platform and the desired effective range.
At 100 to 200 yards, my guess is that any semi auto in .308 will not have much of an advantage over a SKS or AK in 7.62x39.

If you increase the range to 300+ yards, then the .308 stands out as the better choice - but you will want to make sure that your platform will be accurate enough to take advantage of the .308s extended range. To do this, most people will probably recommend a M14 or FAL style of rifle - which are significantly more $$$ than a SKS or AK or Mini 30.

The Saiga platform will shoot .308 and it is probably close in price to the 7.62 choices, but the accuracy of the Saiga may or may not be any better.

I think the short answer is: it depends.

And yes, as mentioned above, neither of these rounds is ideal for indoor scenarios. In that case, you want a shotgun.

 

[rcmodel]

+1 on a .223, or shotgun.

Unless you are defending a mile section ranch in the wilderness, against a Chinese army invasion.
In that case, get the .308.

But you will lose anyway.

BTW: You don't want to fire a .308 inside a house anyway if you value your hearing.

BTW also: The cheap surplus ammo in either caliber is not 110 grain TAP!
It is FMJ military ammo that will shoot through the BG, and your house easily.

rc

 

[peck1234]

Unless you are defending a mile section ranch in the wilderness, against a Chinese army invasion.
In that case, get the .308.

lol

Very True...

a simple .223 or shotgun should suffice...

 

[KBintheSLC]

x39 ammo is plenty of punch for soft targets and intermediate barriers. However, finding that ammo instock lately has become a challenge. I see plenty of 308 at the local shops and online, but X39 is pretty rare. Im lucky I picked some up before the election. Nothing worse than having a rifle you cant feed.

The advantage of the .308 is that you can buy it loaded with just about any bullet you can imagine while loadings for the x39 seem to be more limited.

I am not sure that is entirely true. I have seen FMJ, JHP, JSP, Polymer Tipped JHP, etc in x39. Basically all of the same design options. The only limit is bullet weight and velocity. With the x39, you are limited to about 154g max, whereas you can go up to 180g-200g in 308.

 

[USSR]

FWIW, I saw the OP as looking for a "defense" rifle, not a " home defense" rifle. Still, it's a question of the anticipated use distances involved (as previously stated), and ammo availability in the future. If distances are relatively short (< 300 yards) and you are able to stockpile a generous amount of ammo, then the 7.62x39 is fine; otherwise, go with the .308.

Don

 

[kppodd]

In your case, I'd vote for 7.62x39.

Power-wise, the .308 is in a different league altogether - a marginally less powerful replacement for 30-06, which is a full power rifle cartridge.

The Russian 7.62x39 on the other hand is a "medium" power cartridge with approximately half the muzzle energy - see below.

But, as others mentioned earlier, both are plenty powerful. Both will defeat a class IIIA ballistic vest at point blank range - with energy to spare.

CALIBER Since Grain ft/s ft*lb
7.62x39 Russian 1945 123 2300 1480
303 British 1889 150 2770 2554
308 Winchester 1952 150 2820 2648
30-06 Springfield 1906 150 2900 2820
7.62x54R Russian 1891 150 3000 2905
300 Win. Magnum 1963 150 3290 3605

 

[turkeythigh]

i would say if its all you have use a riffle but if you have shotgun it would be a bit better because you have better stopping power and youre less likely to cause calateral damage. 00 buck is an amazing thing when used for self defence.

 

[Plinkeriffic]

Thanks, y'all.
I am not looking for an indoor defense weapon per se, have a handy scattergun for that. Medium-range reliability/common use/low price round is what I'm looking for. I thought 7.62x39 was a good deal less expensive than the 7.62x51 but it seems I'm wrong about that? Thanks!

 

[kppodd]

7.62x54R is real cheap ($0.25 per round in quantity, with tax and shipping) - but to fire it in semi-auto mode you'd need a Dragunov (ultra expensive, if you can find a seller) or a Tokarev (expensive, and mostly sold by collectors)

 

[Davionmaximus]

Hopefully you don't miss your target with either of these calibers...

 

[Reid73]

I am trying to decide between a 7.62x39 or .308/7.62x51 defense rifle.... .308 is only about $.10/round more (for what seems like a better cartridge).

"Better" is a subjective term. The .308 is more powerful and inherently more accurate than the 7.62x39, that's true. But whether it is better for "defence" purposes is debateable.

If an aggressor is far enough away that the long range ability of the 7.62x51 becomes an issue, you should probably be hiding or withdrawing, not shooting it out and drawing attention to yourself.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Get a .308, why, because I belive in my very humble opinion that it's far more versital, and plus if you get a bolt rifle in .308 then it's a dual use caliber, and the 7.62/39mm isn't as accurate in the platforms it is common with (SKS and AK47). The .308 is also American which is a very big +1 in my book.

America beats Soviet rounds, Soviet assault rifle are more reliable thanthe American ARs. So take your pick, but for 200-500 yards I'd pick a .308, but I'd pick a .308 for anything.

BTW the .308 is my absolute favorite caliber.

 

[quatin]

.308

Let's not forget that there are different types of bullets out there. Hopefully you won't be using FMJs. There's so much more bullet selection in .308 as opposed to x39. Last time I checked, even .223 will make it through 12 sections of dry wall. So if you're using rifle calibers for HD I hope you have planned accordingly so strays don't endanger others.

 

[LoneStarWings]

I went with .308/7.62x51mm personally, I feel like there's more hunting (read: good for defensive) ammo out there for it. If you load your own I guess that's not an issue though.

Check out this link for reccomenations for both calibers: http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

For my M1A (7.62x51) I am in the process of trying out 155gr Hornady TAP's with AMAX, Federal 165gr Sierra Game King soft points, Federal 150 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips, and Winchester Supreme 150gr Ballistic Silvertips. I will probably stock up 500 rounds on whichever shoots with the greatest accuracy out of my weapon.


vs.

 

[Guero4179]

Defensive?
By the time you know somebody is a threat they are in Buckshot range.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

I just bought a 1000 wolf 762x39 for a 200 bucks i dont think your going to get 308 anywhere for a 300 bucks for a 1000 let me know. If anyone knows of some please let me know. What i see right now is 308 is about double in price from comparable 762x39

 

[unwise11]

cheapest .308 ammo i can get is 12 a box.
i dont buy online

 

[Al Thompson]

Online, .50 cents per round is about the lowest. And that's FMJ for range use...

FAR, you do realize this thread is over a year old, right?

 

[amprecon]

Well, you can look at it this way, the .308 can do what the 7.62X39 can do, but the 7.62X39 can't do what the .308 can do.

 

[gunnutery]

Posted by Reid73:
If an aggressor is far enough away that the long range ability of the 7.62x51 becomes an issue, you should probably be hiding or withdrawing, not shooting it out and drawing attention to yourself.

Thank you for bringing this up. I've been thinking about just that issue lately as just last year we moved to a much more rural area and now have more land to "defend."

My original thinking was if an assailant were attacking from 100y away (the longest stretch of my property), my Mini 14 would handle just such a battle. However, the longest stretch of visible ground is about 300y. Initially, I thought "I must re-tool my defense rifle choise in the event that someone is threatening/using deadly force against me or my family at longer distances."

Fortunately, my thought process in such matters is thorough.

A deadly threat from 100y is pretty easily discernable. A deadly threat from 200-300y is not nearly as easy unless you can see the person pointing a gun in your general direction and/or hearing the shots hitting the ground/building next to you. Unless the threat is so obvious, we should probably be calling 9-1-1 on the move to a safe defendable position.

 

[benEzra]

Medium-range reliability/common use/low price round is what I'm looking for. I thought 7.62x39 was a good deal less expensive than the 7.62x51 but it seems I'm wrong about that? Thanks!

I think practice ammo in .223/5.56x45mm and 7.62x39mm are indeed cheaper than practice ammo in 7.62x51mm. Premium loads are pricey regardless of caliber, though.

If you are thinking 200 yards or less, and HD of a non-masonry home with line-of-sight neighbors isn't a likely role, then 7.62x39mm will work fine. However, past 200 yards, .223/5.56 is much easier to hit with, IMO.

My personal suggestion would be to decide what platform you like---AR-15, civilian AK, mini-14, M1A, SU-16, RFB, SCAR, whatever---and *that* will narrow down your caliber choice quite a bit. i.e., if you like the AR-15, .223 would be the logical choice; if you like the civilian AK, 5.45x39mm or 7.62x39mm would be the logical choices; if you like the SCAR, you can pick between .223 and .308; etc.

I will say that regardless of what platform or caliber you choose, mount a good light on it, and perhaps a a good optic. If you should happen you need a defensive carbine, the odds are at least 50/50---and probably greater---that you'll need it at night.

 

[Hatterasguy]

Your comparing an intermediate round to a full size round, not really a fair comparison.

I'd buy a rifle you like in each caliber and decide which you prefer.