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The AR-15 all famous m4 "Chart" that some swear by.

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by helz_mcfugly, Dec 13, 2008.

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  1. RP88

    RP88 Member

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    it's not so much a quality chart as it is a 'do they use mil-spec in this criteria' chart. That's all it is. If you're looking for a fighting rifle, then look at the chart. If you're looking for an accuracy rifle, then the chart shouldnt even be in the back of your mind.
     
  2. Acera

    Acera Member

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    Aren't a lot of the M-16s fielded now from FN? Where do the DPMS's fit in?

    The major problems I've been told about from overseas seem to come from poor maintenance by the soldier, not from the bolt carrier not being staked properly, or the barrel not being pressure tested. We can drop the drama, some of you remind me of Nancy Grace on CNN, if your weapon fails, you don't immediately die. The chances may increase, but most soldiers will take cover, sort out the problem as the rest of the group continues the fight. There are differences today than there were in Viet Nam, where you had multiple weapons going down at the same time. From talking to family members who serve in the infantry, it seems to be a rare occurrence for their weapons to go down. They claim it is more of a pogue and fobit issue.
     
  3. craig

    craig Member

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    after consulting the chart i bought my first ar, a dpms.

    i just use it at the range/for plinking so i couldn't really see paying top dollar for a colt since i'm not going into battle.

    for me, at least, the chart served a useful purpose and it'll probably help many others.

    if it looks like i'll need a battle weapon i have 3 ak clones and a daewoo dr200 to choose from.:)
     
  4. SCBradley

    SCBradley Member

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    It seems that once every few days there's another thread where people are getting all butt hurt over rob_s's chart. Move on.

    Maybe you guys could go to the autoloader forum and start "My Lorcin is just as good as a Glock".
     
  5. proven

    proven Member

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    acera

    that's because the ones fielded overseas are properly staked and the bbls are pressure tested. go figure.

    very true. what happens if their bolt breaks? same goes for anyone using an ar for home defense. their out of the fight. that's the reason behind tested bolts. carrying a spare is a good idea, but using a properly tested one to begin with is a better idea.

    again you're talking about weapons that have been built to mil spec and follow the TDP. ask some of the instructors of tactical carbine classes which weapons fail more often, ones that follow the TDP or ones that don't.
     
  6. U.S.SFC_RET

    U.S.SFC_RET Member

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    I can't speak for the whole U.S.Army but I can speak for myself. My isued weapon never jammed during the entire 20 year timeframe I spent in the service. It was because I cleaned it.
     
  7. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Hmm.
    WIN
     
  8. 12131

    12131 Member

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    WIN some more.:D
     
  9. Loomis

    Loomis member

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    Seems to me that colt isn't the only supplier of M16 rifles to the US military.

    So what does that say about this infamous chart?
     
  10. atlanticfire

    atlanticfire Member

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    ummm. its junk:rolleyes:
     
  11. longdayjake

    longdayjake Member

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    my 1944 garand and I will go to war against any of you and your ar 15s no matter what brand it is!!!:neener:
     
  12. SCBradley

    SCBradley Member

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    Seems to me the same TDP (what the chart uses as it's standard) has to be followed regardless of the supplier.

    I agree. Facts are stupid.

    The differences between a DPMS Sportical with the requisite airsoft quality accessories, and an LMT M4 are meaningless in the "real world".

    Only a fool would buy rails from Larue when you can get some that are "just as good" from UTG.
     
  13. Kino74

    Kino74 Member

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    So how many of you guys are 45 Bravos and 45 Kilos? I'm curious because last thread like this both a 4 5 Bravo and a 45 Bravo/Kilo were not too fond of the chart. Now why would that be?
     
  14. Seminole

    Seminole Member

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    The chart is a compilation of information. Information is a tool. Different people use tools in different ways and for different things. If you don't find this tool helpful, don't use it.

    Berating the tool isn't helpful. Berating people who use the tool isn't helpful.
     
  15. SCBradley

    SCBradley Member

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    Hi ad hominem, nice to see you here!
     
  16. Timradcliffe345

    Timradcliffe345 member

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    For the record: I believe that the Colt 6920 is the rifle to beat when it comes to a fighting AR15 carbine. I want to run my carbines hard, that is why I go with a Colt. I have three other AR brands, the Colt is my GTG.

    The chart does a good job in pointing out what features are desirable in a fighting carbine. Does everybody need these features? No. Those that do pick a Colt. I personally want those features. It is apparent there are some people on here with DPMS/Bushie fetishes that obviously don't know what they are talking about when it comes to a fighting carbine. That would be you OP. God Bless America, and those that defend her.
     
  17. Frog48

    Frog48 Member

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    But thats the funny thing... how many of these Chart-worshipping internet commandos have, or ever will, actually pull the trigger in a combat situtation?

    *crickets chirping*

    Yeah, thats what I thought.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2008
  18. SCBradley

    SCBradley Member

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    Do people who subscribe to Consumer Reports piss you off this much as well?

    Imagine, people who compare the features, quality, longevity, and price of everything they purchase.

    Just the thought sends me into a rage.
     
  19. Kino74

    Kino74 Member

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  20. Joe Demko

    Joe Demko Member

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    Untested parts fail?
    Do tested parts never fail?
    Egos tied to guns.
     
  21. SCBradley

    SCBradley Member

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    What was the name of this thread and the OP's position again?

    The chart usually only makes an appearance to show a prospective buyer that they could spend a couple hundred dollars more on a rifle made of vastly superior materials.

    The berating is generally started by owners of brands the that chart doesn't favor.

    "it's junk" "internet commandos" etc

    PS:
    Replacing in spec parts with aftermarket parts could be considered frivolous, but it doesn't make out of spec parts okay.
     
  22. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    OK, so could some wise person please tell me why I care if the barrel is finished under the front sight base? What difference could that possibly ever make???
     
  23. Joe Demko

    Joe Demko Member

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    Barrel steel on chart.
    No other materials.
    Tests and dimensions.
     
  24. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Both fail. It's the failure rate that matters.

    Mike
     
  25. HorseSoldier

    HorseSoldier Member

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    Yes, but FN built M16s aren't available to the public, so there's no point in putting them on the chart. FN M16 rifles built for US military contract are built using the approved TDP, and so would be identical in features to the Colt except where the features on the chart are M4-specific.

    The chart addresses civilian legal Colts (i.e. the 6920), not actual military issue M4s or M4A1s. Since neither of those weapons is legal for civilians to own it's kind of irrelevant. The point is that the 6920 is the closest weapon you can get to the M4 TDP.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2008
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