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The BATF Paid Me A Visit Yesterday

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by braxton14, Jan 5, 2013.

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  1. animator

    animator Member

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    03 FFL. Collector of Curio and Relic Firearms. Agent's visit lasted maybe 5 minutes after learning that.
     
  2. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    The problem with attempting to do that under these circumstances, however, is that they don't have anything against the buyer.

    If they tried that, the buy can simply provide his documentation of what it was he was purchasing and from whom.

    The seller, if he's on the up-and-up, will have his own documentation on this.

    There is very likely a fairly extensive trail on such a weapon which would be hard to refute.
     
  3. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    Belt-fed semis are something of a rarity. In any case, I'd never use that FFL again.

    Legal advice isn't a bad idea, and documentation should be demanded by you. If the agents who interact with you refuse to provide it, go over their head- it's to CYA.

    John
     
  4. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

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    Were that a concern (in this case, if I were the FFL and not necessarily the OP), I'd take some pics and video of the gun in the condition it arrived in, making sure to note the SN and get good shots of the trigger group/sear.
     
  5. d2wing

    d2wing Member

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    Until recently I was confident in the fairness of law enforcement. No more, anything for a conviction. Anything you say will be distorted and cause false charges that cost thousands and months to clear your name. If you clear your name.
     
  6. medalguy

    medalguy Member

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    ball3006, you are incorrect. Both FA and semi fire from closed bolt always. The difference is that when the following rounds are chambered, the FA will continue to fire if the trigger is kept down, whereas the semi will not fire again. There's a spring in the trigger/sear that keeps the trigger from engaging the sear again until the trigger is released and then pulled again.

    I know John McGuire, and I can assure you his builds are among, if not, the top builds out there. No way he would have cut corners or done a sloppy job and allowed a gun to malfunction and fire fully automatic.

    Also I agree completely, get legal representation before talking with any BATF agents. Been there, done that several times as a Class III dealer a few years ago.
     
  7. Deltaboy1984

    Deltaboy1984 Member

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    Nice gun and get a new transfer guy.
     
  8. B!ngo

    B!ngo Member

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    When I read the OP's post, I interpreted the tax-stamp section as, 'if it was an auto I would be filing for a tax stamp...'. Unless the OP edited his post after some of you folks read it and before I did then I guess I just have a different interpretation.
    But I do wonder under what grounds they can delay the transfer and hold the rifle under the guise of needing an inspection? I am not trying to be smug or uncooperative but, can a BAATF agent walk in to any firearms dealer and, while watching an authorized FFL engage in a sale or transfer, halt the process and sequester the item in question just because?
    B
     
  9. braxton14

    braxton14 Member

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    The Agent had her boss inspect it (did the common sense >10 second check according to my friend that works at the shop). When I got there they apologized for the process and where on their way. She also gave me instructions on how to get an official letter from the ATF from their tech dept if i wanted (Id have to mail in my 1919A4, have them inspect it again).

    Anyways, here she is (MG3 tripod, adapter, links, ammo on the way):

    IMG_1520_zpsa306fbdf.gif

    What she will look like after I get everything (but in 7.62x54R):

    2010_05090011_zps177cd766.gif
    2010_05090010_zpsc38cc738.gif
     
  10. blarby

    blarby Member

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    Run.........

    To your lawyer.

    STOP

    Posting on the internet.

    GET

    A new FFL.

    PURSUE

    Any possible legal remedies against the current one. There has to be something here...has to be, right ? :D
     
  11. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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  12. Romeo 33 Delta

    Romeo 33 Delta Member

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    medalguy ... The terms "open bolt" and "closed bolt" referred to the position of the bolt when the weapon is cocked and ready to fire. Of course, in order to go BANG, the bolt would have to be "closed". My position on this is drawn from years of experience with both semi, select fire and full auto firearms. One of my personal favorites, the FG42, operates as "closed bolt" for semi-auto fire and swtich to "open bolt" for full auto. And, yes, the M-1919s (if full auto) fire from an "open bolt"
     
  13. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Certainly. However, the M1919 does indeed begin the firing cycle with the bolt fully closed.
     
  14. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Glad it all worked out for you.

    I would NEVER use that FFL again, and I'd make it very clear why. If he's too stupid to know the difference between a title I and title II firearm, he's too stupid to be running a gun shop. Inconveniencing a legitimate customer this way is absolutely unacceptable, especially without a courtesy call to YOU voicing his concerns prior to an ATF phone call.
     
  15. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    I believe there's a South African 7.62x51mm version which fires from the open bolt to prevent cook-offs. Admittedly not a common variation, nor would a semi-auto version be likely to be approved.
     
  16. col.lemat

    col.lemat Member

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    Get another FFL dealer. AllBrowning Machineguns fire from a closed bolt except for the BAR
     
  17. joeschmoe

    joeschmoe Member

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    What right do they have to delay the transfer "until they prove" it's not a machine gun? You cleared the NICS background check, then the transfer must happen.

    There is no option to "further study" or demand more info, and ask you about other guns, etc.

    It was a fishing expedition.
     
  18. lonehunter

    lonehunter Member

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    I am sorry guys, I don't see where the FFL did anything wrong! It should have been marked as semi auto only!

    He thought he had a machine-gun in his shop, possibly being transferred illegally. What was he suppose to do just carry on with the transfer.

    In the political climate after the school shooting, I would be extra careful, rather than risking his livelihood or worse!

    Glad it all worked out.


    Jeff
     
  19. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    Really? Should all AR-15s and M-1As be marked the same way?

    All Kalashnikovs?

    And by the way, if I illegally shipped a full-auto MG-3 to that shop, if I marked it "semi-auto only", does that mean that they then SHOULDN'T check it?
     
  20. wojownik

    wojownik Member

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    ^ This. Plus, couldn't the FFL have just contacted the company sending the item, to find out what it exactly was that arrived?

    But, FWIW, even before things got to that stage, shouldn't a buyer give an FFL the heads up at the very start on what would be arriving, especially if its something this interesting... ("hey, I want to order a really cool, semi-auto version of M1919 ... can you transfer it for me?")
     
  21. bigmouth

    bigmouth Member

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    Right, bureaucrats are like a septic tank, the big chunks just naturally rise to the top. Is that what you are referring to.
     
  22. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    woj, the OP indicated he had spoken to the FFL numerous times about it.
     
  23. dcarch

    dcarch Member

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  24. gym

    gym member

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    Fools using hearsay based on rumor, the govt is full of them. They get paid for this also
     
  25. AlexanderA

    AlexanderA Member

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    I recommend getting one of those sheet-metal feedway protectors if you're going to be running this gun with metal links, or else use cloth belts. Otherwise, the links will really scratch up the trunnion. This wasn't a concern in the military, but a civilian owner would probably want to protect his multi-thousand dollar investment.
     
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