The better snubbie?
- Thread starter Mastrogiacomo
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Serpico
Member
Same here...and if the DA only is a concern, a spring kit and or some polishing can meake these very light and smooth...
Marshall
Member
I've felt some very "worked on" double action Smith's and Ruger's and still, they are nowhere near a single action action pull and feel of a Smith. Personally, I would rather shoot all shots single action and can do so damn near as fast as I can shooting double action and much more accurately, especially shooting a 357 J-Frame. With a .38 it would be less of a necessity however.
JNewell
Member
It really depends on how you're going to use it. Plenty of people still pack the 66/19 2 1/2" guns, which are quite a bit larger than both the SP101 and the 60. Other people think the 60 is already too heavy and/or too big for concealed carry.
sm
member
Snubbies are personal , probably moreso because of caiber to recoil ratio and gun fit is more important. Good Wood Stocks make a difference. Some folks have good success on using them black yucky grip thingy's. 
I voted other. I prefer one of the OLDER Blue&Wood myself. Anything from a M-36,M-10, to say a M19
Dang little '28 Dick Special I have, though its all backwards from what I grew up with...grows on a person.
I voted other. I prefer one of the OLDER Blue&Wood myself. Anything from a M-36,M-10, to say a M19
Dang little '28 Dick Special I have, though its all backwards from what I grew up with...grows on a person.
For a pocket piece, 2" J frame. Wife has a dehorned M37 and I use a 442. Both are obviously DAO and have a lot of ammo through them over the years. Mileage carried on the person, about a million each.
Not many things in life as trustworthy and useful as a good J frame. (Especially in an election year.)
Not many things in life as trustworthy and useful as a good J frame. (Especially in an election year.)
Cool Hand Luke 22:36
member
My SP101 will still be a good shooter when I'm dead and long gone. Not sure if S&W is as robust.
Stock grips on the SP are a vast improvement on the S&W, there's $20 saved right there.
No safety lock business either, though they need to lose the owners manual suggestion on the barrell shroud.
Stock grips on the SP are a vast improvement on the S&W, there's $20 saved right there.
No safety lock business either, though they need to lose the owners manual suggestion on the barrell shroud.
tomkatz
Member
My 2 inch 642-1 has a nice trigger, some of the newer smiths I've tried haven't been as good for sure.....my nickel 38 bodyguard has an equally good trigger but I carry the 642 since it is a more common gun, the 38 is becoming a bit of a collector for me.....my 2.5 inch 66-nothing has a great trigger, the best of the bunch, but I think it has had some work done to it, and it is too heavy to carry for backup duty IMO, I carry it as a primary sometimes....like someone else said, they all have their merits ......tom
......tomI have the S&W 642 in 38+p and S&W 640 in 357. Both are hammerless. Both received actionwork before I could enjoy the trigger. The 642 is my everyday carry gun but it packs a wollop when I practice. The stainless 640 is much easier to shoot in 38+p. My Ruger SP101 had a spring kit and minor internal cleanup and that improved it's action. For a pocket gun the 642 wins. If carried on the hip and weight is not a factor, I'll go for a S&W686+ or lightweight 386+ (both 7 shot). For serious social situations, I believe we should shoot DA from a liability standpoint. So if necessary, get the action smoothed so you can shoot DA.
Ex-MA Hole
Member
642
Just picked up a Model 38-1. It is my first and only (therefore "best") snubby. Learning to shoot it. A very different beast than my other Smiths. Very crisp SA. DA is a little wierd. The gun is so small my trigger finger is hitting my thumb.
russlate
Member
Colt Cobra, Agent, or Detective Special.
The first two are rated for +P, which the S&W airweighT "J"'s are not. Matter of fact I don't trust an older steel "J" with +P's either. The DS will swallow +P's without a burp.
Plus, the hammer shrouds for the D-frame are available, and there are enough Cobras around in good shape and for less than a new S&W ABOMINATION!!!!!
The first two are rated for +P, which the S&W airweighT "J"'s are not. Matter of fact I don't trust an older steel "J" with +P's either. The DS will swallow +P's without a burp.
Plus, the hammer shrouds for the D-frame are available, and there are enough Cobras around in good shape and for less than a new S&W ABOMINATION!!!!!
BluesBear
member
All three of the Colt revolvers you mentioned will handle .38 Special +p ammunition.
However all three were created long before there was any such thing as +P ammunition and Colt didn't actually rate the Agent nor the Cobra for +P.
In the late 1970s when +P first appeared, if you had called Colt Customer Service you would have been told that any and all of their D-frame revolvers, both all steel and aloy frame models, would handle +P ammo in moderate amounts.
Which is exactly the same thing S&W Customer Service would have told you during the same time period regarding all, of their J-Frame revolvers both Steel and Airweight.
By the way, I was a stocking dealer for both Colt & S&W back then so I know this information to be accurate.
Colt and S&W knew that sometime, somewhere, someone would shoot some of the .38-44 High-Speed/Super Police ammunition in them.
Therefore all .38 special Colt and S&W revolvers manufactured after 1940 were designed with that fact in mind.
It was this extra margin of strength that enabled the ammunition manufacturers to develop +P ammo.
The original Remington/Peters .38-44 ammunition was designed to be used in S&W N-frame and Colt New Service Revolvers and will create higher pressures than most modern day .38 Special +P ammunition.
By a slim margin, I voted for the M60 - but I'd probably go with the 3" full lug model with adjustable sights, maybe even the .357 mag model. If you're looking for absolute maximum concealability in a snubbie, the M60 is hard to beat.
The Detective Special is pretty sweet, too. There is one at the local shop in the rare 3" barrel model, that I keep ogling They are very small but hold six shots, which is not a small issue.
The Detective Special is pretty sweet, too. There is one at the local shop in the rare 3" barrel model, that I keep ogling
They are very small but hold six shots, which is not a small issue.JPM70535
Member
All the snubbies mentioned here are good for their intended purpose which is to be a short range defensive weapon capable of stopping BGs before they do you harm. he fact that they can also be used for target shooting is a nice bonus, but accuracy that places all 5 rounds in an 8" circle at 25' rapid fire is more than sufficient.
My choice is the shrouded S&W model 649 chambered for 357. IMO this package gives the most value in that you can shoot 38s for practice while you build up finger strength,(BTW, the shrouded hammer stlll allows you to cock the hammer for single action practice), a course of action I highly recommend you take since the factory double action trigger pulls are not all that heavy. If need be, the double action pull on the 649 can be easily smoothed and lightened with a little judicious stone work and a change in springs. The shrouded hammer also makes snagging the hammer on clothing while executing a draw almost impossible to do
Years ago I owned a Colt Detective Special. Qualitywas first class but accuracy basically sucked and the trigger pull was truly horrendous. The S&Ws were like glass by comparison, and the cost of improving the trigger pul IIRC was roughly twice that of the Smiths. The current DSs may be improved over my sample however that didn't correct the fact that the width of the Colt made concealment more difficult than the Smiths.
I have no practical knowledge of the Ruger Snubbies except that they felt really clunky to grip and were heavy compared to the Mod 649. I recommend that what ever you buy, get it in Staainless instead of Alloy, it will go a long way in recoil reduction and after a few days carrying it, you won't even notice the difference in weight but when you load it with 357s, you will be glad for the weight.
As for the J frame clones rom Taurus, Rossi, and others, remember, you get what you pay for, so spend what you think your life is worth.
My choice is the shrouded S&W model 649 chambered for 357. IMO this package gives the most value in that you can shoot 38s for practice while you build up finger strength,(BTW, the shrouded hammer stlll allows you to cock the hammer for single action practice), a course of action I highly recommend you take since the factory double action trigger pulls are not all that heavy. If need be, the double action pull on the 649 can be easily smoothed and lightened with a little judicious stone work and a change in springs. The shrouded hammer also makes snagging the hammer on clothing while executing a draw almost impossible to do
Years ago I owned a Colt Detective Special. Qualitywas first class but accuracy basically sucked and the trigger pull was truly horrendous. The S&Ws were like glass by comparison, and the cost of improving the trigger pul IIRC was roughly twice that of the Smiths. The current DSs may be improved over my sample however that didn't correct the fact that the width of the Colt made concealment more difficult than the Smiths.
I have no practical knowledge of the Ruger Snubbies except that they felt really clunky to grip and were heavy compared to the Mod 649. I recommend that what ever you buy, get it in Staainless instead of Alloy, it will go a long way in recoil reduction and after a few days carrying it, you won't even notice the difference in weight but when you load it with 357s, you will be glad for the weight.
As for the J frame clones rom Taurus, Rossi, and others, remember, you get what you pay for, so spend what you think your life is worth.
BluesBear
member
VERY RARE.
Grab it while you can.
How much are they asking for it?
Stainz
Member
At the range where I work as a part-time RO, I endorse the 642 as the best bargain and choice in a PD or BUG. It has been extremely popular since the price change 2/03 - and many repeat folks have returned with one. I know of one fault that I have seen - and that had to do with a gun solvent and the clearcoat finish on the frame... and S&W will fix that. Mechanically, they have been super.
Concerning the 642, I suggest two things: the slightly (~3/8" longer) Hoque grips for better control and a proper break-in procedure. The latter will imitate a basic trigger job - at essentially no expense. I do not recomend a .357 Magnum for the average person for self defense... the infamous 'FBI' load of the .38 Special +P 158gr LHPSWC (Remington R38S12 ~$21/50 MSRP) is a great load, however... and still has a 'OSS' (one shot stop) rating significantly higher than the infamous 230gr FMJ .45 ACP round. At 840 fps from my 2" M10, hundreds of fps slower than a .357M, and being made of lead, they don't have as much potential to cause collateral damage. Leading in a 2" snub is minimal - and easily cleaned, too. The new +P Gold Dots have great feedback thus far as well.
A great 3" revolver still available new today is the 65LS. It is much larger and heavier than the 642, making it more of a purse-size carry - or a home defense firearm. Additionally, it will handle .357M's, should you target something inside your fridge or a man-sized armadillo.
My personal interpretation of a great 2" snub is my M10-11 2" - a 1/03 production. +P rated, it loves those 158gr LHPSWC's. It is a bit heavy for carry. I did replace the excellent UM's combat grips with the S&W service wood grips - a more 'appropriate' grip for a snubby. My CCW of choice is still my larger lite weight Al/Ti 2.5" .44 Special hammerless 296.
Stainz
Concerning the 642, I suggest two things: the slightly (~3/8" longer) Hoque grips for better control and a proper break-in procedure. The latter will imitate a basic trigger job - at essentially no expense. I do not recomend a .357 Magnum for the average person for self defense... the infamous 'FBI' load of the .38 Special +P 158gr LHPSWC (Remington R38S12 ~$21/50 MSRP) is a great load, however... and still has a 'OSS' (one shot stop) rating significantly higher than the infamous 230gr FMJ .45 ACP round. At 840 fps from my 2" M10, hundreds of fps slower than a .357M, and being made of lead, they don't have as much potential to cause collateral damage. Leading in a 2" snub is minimal - and easily cleaned, too. The new +P Gold Dots have great feedback thus far as well.
A great 3" revolver still available new today is the 65LS. It is much larger and heavier than the 642, making it more of a purse-size carry - or a home defense firearm. Additionally, it will handle .357M's, should you target something inside your fridge or a man-sized armadillo.
My personal interpretation of a great 2" snub is my M10-11 2" - a 1/03 production. +P rated, it loves those 158gr LHPSWC's. It is a bit heavy for carry. I did replace the excellent UM's combat grips with the S&W service wood grips - a more 'appropriate' grip for a snubby. My CCW of choice is still my larger lite weight Al/Ti 2.5" .44 Special hammerless 296.
Stainz
Kamicosmos
Member
All all good choices.
I have the SP101 with bobbed hammer, 2 1/4 barrel. I put in the springs from Wolffe and that helped the trigger pull alot.
The trick about these DAO Snubbies? Practice. You must dry fire alot and get them to the range alot. They are capable of surprising accuracy, but you defineatly have to do your part!
I have the SP101 with bobbed hammer, 2 1/4 barrel. I put in the springs from Wolffe and that helped the trigger pull alot.
The trick about these DAO Snubbies? Practice. You must dry fire alot and get them to the range alot. They are capable of surprising accuracy, but you defineatly have to do your part!
686
When snubbie fever hit me I went out and looked at a lot. After handling all the above mentioned beautied, I went home with the 2" 686. What really surprised me was how accurate it is. I loaded up some warmish mags. Shot them at 7 yards. Went into one hole. Moved to 15 yards. 2" group. Moved to 25 yards. 3" group. I had no idea these tiny guns were so accurate.
It is a bit heavy tho. Wouldn't want to carry this around all day.
When snubbie fever hit me I went out and looked at a lot. After handling all the above mentioned beautied, I went home with the 2" 686. What really surprised me was how accurate it is. I loaded up some warmish mags. Shot them at 7 yards. Went into one hole. Moved to 15 yards. 2" group. Moved to 25 yards. 3" group. I had no idea these tiny guns were so accurate.
It is a bit heavy tho. Wouldn't want to carry this around all day.
Vern Humphrey
Member
I like the SP 101 -- and bought one for my daughter. It is a fine gun, but a little stiff for her hands. With practice and wear, that should change.
Personally, my backup (and occasionally primary carry) is a Colt Detective Special. I had to make a holster for it -- couldn't find what I wanted commercially -- but it carries very well (even when just stuffed into a pants pocket with a handkerchief.)
I have a foot-square rock about a hundred yards from my porch, and I can punish that rock regularly with my Detective Special -- so I figure it lacks nothing in the shootability and accuracy department.
Personally, my backup (and occasionally primary carry) is a Colt Detective Special. I had to make a holster for it -- couldn't find what I wanted commercially -- but it carries very well (even when just stuffed into a pants pocket with a handkerchief.)
I have a foot-square rock about a hundred yards from my porch, and I can punish that rock regularly with my Detective Special -- so I figure it lacks nothing in the shootability and accuracy department.
redmule
Member
A snubbie is a pocket pistol, go for an airweight. S&W or Colt, both good choices.
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