The Civil Rights Movement: Fraud, Sham, and Hoax

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

I wait, but won't hold my breath, to hear anything any Repug has done in the last 50 years that comes close.

In terms of doing the right thing regardless of the political cost, I would put Gerald Ford's pardon of Nixon well above LBJ's support for the Civil Rights Act. Johnson could at least expect a payoff in the form of Black votership for the Democrat party, Blacks still voted in significant numbers for the Republican party back in the 1960's. Ford received no political benefit from the pardon whatsoever.

 

[fallingblock]

"Principled political act"?

"The only thing I can think of that comes close is Howard Dean's opposition to the war."
************************************************************

That give the term 'principled' a leaner meaning .

 

[Jim March]

DrJones, I think you've sorted out what you got wrong already but in case anything is still unclear for others (because this stuff MATTERS):

1) I consider Condi Rice in particular an excellent leader, among the best we have today of any skin color. The rest mentioned range from "decent" to "well above average" (NOT including Jesse Jackson, Sharpton, etc.).

2) I do not believe that good leaders who happen to be black should try to "advance their own race" in any special way, with the possible exception of providing role models.

3) If the urban black community by and large prefers Jackson or Sharpton as a community spokesman while openly disparaging Rice, et al, then something is deeply wrong with urban black culture. Well no surprise there, something IS deeply wrong with urban black culture - the rate of urban black-on-black homicides is just...well, "horrifying" is a start, but nowhere near strong enough.

My view: urban black culture has been systematically ravaged over a 200 year period by white racism. The major elements: economic limits were placed on them, welfare programs were structured to destroy families, inadequate police staffing was provided while at the SAME time strict gun control was either applied purely to those communities or enforced with greater zeal. Not that long ago, black-on-black crime wasn't even investigated; while it's rare that a total lack of interest over black homicide victims happens today, there's still a serious disparity in the level of police resources brought to bear after a black is found dead versus a white, in the urban areas, esp. when there's also an economic disparity.

Folks, it is possible for an entire culture to go "clinically insane". The Germans managed it between 1935 and 1945, ditto the Japanese starting even earlier (based on horrorshows in China going back to...1933 I think?). In 1874 or so, most Americans would tell you that "the only good Indian was a dead Indian" and their other racial views were just as warped, to a degree I certainly consider "insane".

So I believe my OWN culture is quite capable of going stark raving bonkers. I think my own culture is at least slightly neurotic in some ways, namely regards gun control and the level of intrusive gov't the people who make up "my culture" seem to tolerate.

 

[Orthonym]

Oh, uh, Hi, zelmo, and welcome to the Forum!

As someone who's multiply eligible to join SCV, I insist that my great-grandpas joined up to fight and die, not to preserve the Slaveocracy, but to resist the unconstitutional usurpations of the Republicans. As far as I know, my ancestors before and during the Lincoln War were honest yeoman farmers.

That said, I have no problem with looking out for the descendents of those people dragged over here in chains from Africa, considering all of those mean and grumpy Jim Crow laws passed in the South AFTER the War.


By "looking out for", I do not mean reparations. I mean undoing ( as much as possible) the bad things previously done, so as to set all of us now alive on an even footing to compete with each other.

The above does not apply, I think, to people recently arrived from Haiti, or Nigeria, or etc. who expect special consideration for the darkness of their skin. Doesn't seniority count for something? Importation of slaves from Africa to the USA officially (and mostly) stopped in 1807. That means, to me at least, that the people who used to be known as "American Negroes" are senior to the Irish, the 1848 Germans, the Ashkenazim, the Italians, as far as having been here for a while counts as having a stake in the country. It should not surprise anyone that those folks (the ORIGINAL Afro-Americans) are grumpy.


Edit: Oh, not to mention the huge Mexican elephant in the living room.

 

[zelmo73]

Thanks for welcoming me, but......

What about the Native Americans who seem to have been "passed over" in favor of African Amerian culture, Ortho? True, Native Americans receive certain perks such as free health care and the like, but as far as their actual culture is concerned, it is far less respected when compared to the likes of the blacks or, say, the Hispanics.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

The Dems, whatever else you think of them, took a HUGE political loss when LBJ signed the Viting Rights Act.

That was 40 years ago. The democratic party and the civil rights movements are no where near where they were back then. Following the death of MLK, the black movement went from equal rights and living together in peace to Jackson/Sharpton with reparations, Affirmative Action and an endless list of programs that do nothing but make the blacks dependent on the government and prey for their "leaders".

 

[sw442642]

(personal attack deleted) It has nothinhg to do with guns.
Second, the Civil Rights movement was because governments in the United States deprived people of basic rights on the basis of race. Blacks could not vote, go to school, etc. etc. They were beaten and lynched by agents of the state and private citizens - sometimes acting together - if they wanted to exercise their rights. Churches were bombed and little children killed.

Wallace was a flat out and out racist at that time. If he saw the light later, goodie for him. Apologists are full of crap.

If you don't like Al Sharpton now, that is really irrelevant to the reason for the Civil Rights movement.

The curse of the gun world is that we attract crap like this. (personal attack deleted) Without the Civil rights movement, blacks would be still not be able to go to school, live in good neighborhoods, etc. (personal attack deleted)

 

[Thumper]

Bet it doesn't and I bet it gets you banned...if you can't abide by the rules, don't play.

We try for civil discussion here...don't know why you feel you have to jump on Dr. J. He didn't post anything vitriolic here...you did.

If I were you, I'd attempt a rewrite with the attacks redone. Make your points...attacking other members just detracts from your cause.

 

[Drjones]

Thank you for your defense, Thumper.

sw442642, I don't know what your problem is, but I can guess. It's a lot easier to call names than it is to argue your opponents rationally.

I hardly think my hatred of people such as sharpton, jackson and other racist liberals qualifies as "racism." I hate people such as sharpton because of their actions, not because of their skin color. And don't you worry; there are plenty of people of all colors that I hate, if it makes you feel better.

Further, you are out of line. I have said nothing in this thread to warrant an attack like that.

I'll admit I am not PC and am not afraid to express it on other forums. If you have a problem with me or any of my comments, please email me and I'll clear it up for you.

Finally, you don't know me, what color my skin is, nor what my ancestors have been through. Don't judge me.

Let's not drag this thread further OT.

 

[dustind]

This is a great thread, it is great to see people talking openly about this.

sw442642 this thread is about civil rights. What evidence do you have about any members being racist, care to show any examples?

 

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

Wallace was a flat out and out racist at that time. If he saw the light later, goodie for him...

This just isn't true, it's countered by Wallace's record of appointing Blacks to State Government prior to the school desregation conflicts.

Wallace was a populist trying to guarantee his re-election when he stood in the school house door, he was not acting on any racist hatred of Blacks.

 

[Malone LaVeigh]

Gerald Ford's pardon of Nixon

I'd like to know what principle was being stood up for when Ford pardoned Nixon. Criminals shouldn't be prosecuted?

That was 40 years ago.

And they're still paying for it. Any southerner who's honest about it today will tell you that the Republican Party is the party for white people. They left in droves after the CRA.

The point I was trying to make is that it's vanishingly rare to see either of the major parties pandering to anything but the lowest passions of their most recrudent constituency. For the Repugs, it started with Nixon's "Southern Strategy." Racism has been an unspoken understanding among southern white Republicans ever since. I don't have to imagine this. My relatives still in Miss. are quite explicit about it.

 

[mountainclmbr]

Granting special privilege due to race is as wrong as granting special gun rights based on which side of the citizen/civil servant line you use to earn your living....Except I believe that Citizens should be able to deny Civil Servants the right to carry guns while under our employment.

 

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

I'd like to know what principle was being stood up for when Ford pardoned Nixon

Mercy? Towards a man who was reportedly close to death a few months after leaving the White House? To a man who was reliably reported to be on a suicide watch by the Secret Service at that time?

Although it would have made the leftists in the news media infinitely happy to see Nixon hounded to death, pardoning him and sparing the country that spectacle was the correct thing to do in my opinion, even though it certainly may have subverted the principle of equal justice under the law.

 

[Orthonym]

Wallace was endorsed by the NAACP until he lost an election to a real ignorant yahoo race-baiter, whereupon he swore that he'd never be "out-niggered again!"

 

[Hkmp5sd]

And they're still paying for it. Any southerner who's honest about it today will tell you that the Republican Party is the party for white people.

You really need to update yourself on the current situation in the Civil Rights movement. Read a few books about Jackson, Sharpton, Waters, NAACP, Rainbow/PUSH, etc. Civil Rights has been corrupted into nothing more than scare tactics and big business. Do you really think any of the so-called "Black Leaders" want true fairness and equality? They are making millions perpetuating the hatred and fear between the races.

Any black person that disagrees with any of the "leaders" is attacked by all as an "Uncle Tom". Any white that disagrees with any of them is automatically labeled a racist and attacked by all of them.

 

[Malone LaVeigh]

You really need to update yourself on the current situation in the Civil Rights movement. Read a few books about Jackson, Sharpton, Waters, NAACP, Rainbow/PUSH, etc. Civil Rights has been corrupted into nothing more than scare tactics and big business. Do you really think any of the so-called "Black Leaders" want true fairness and equality? They are making millions perpetuating the hatred and fear between the races.

Any black person that disagrees with any of the "leaders" is attacked by all as an "Uncle Tom". Any white that disagrees with any of them is automatically labeled a racist and attacked by all of them.

You're painting with a pretty broad brush there, but I would probably agree about Jackson, Sr. and Sharpton. That doesn't in any way refute what I said about the Republican Party in the South.

 

[Jim March]

The news is not completely bleak within the "black community". Some of the NAACP chapters are bordering on open revolt from the core body...both Sacramento and Oakland (Calif) are led by pro-RKBA individuals. The Oakland NAACP chapter is led by a *Republican* name of Shannon Reeves.

Dunno how many other chapters are waking up...but just the existence of those is reason for hope.

 

[dustind]

You're painting with a pretty broad brush there

That is amazing. I just got home and opened this thread to say the same about you and your Mississippi republican comment. I guess if you meant party that is a little different. It sounded like you meant the whole state, or the whole south(population) by your first comment.

 

[buzz_knox]

And they're still paying for it. Any southerner who's honest about it today will tell you that the Republican Party is the party for white people. They left in droves after the CRA.

I'm honest, and I say you have no clue what you're talking about. You're also rather incoherent. If you say that whites left the Democratic party, wrong. Most of the people (whites and blacks) in my state belong to the Democratic party, as do most of the people I know. I have never met anyone who changed affiliations due to the CRA. Not one. I choose not to join because I find most of the Democratic party stances offensive, if not outright disgusting, and an abomination of what this country was meant to be. And the constant race baiting and class warfare that forms the basis of their platform simply proves that point.

The CRA was the final Kennedy legacy. He helped get it rolling on a national level, and it's passage was almost guaranteed after his death. LBJ would have been politically castrated if he hadn't signed it. Principled decision? Yeah, right.

 

[Malone LaVeigh]

That is amazing. I just got home and opened this thread to say the same about you and your Mississippi republican comment. I guess if you meant party that is a little different. It sounded like you meant the whole state, or the whole south(population) by your first comment.

I thought I made it clear I was talking about the party.

If you say that whites left the Democratic party, wrong.

How old are you? I remember when there was effectively no Republican Party in Mississippi. My cousin worked for Carol Gartin in those days, and had a pretty good handle on state politics. She's now a Repug, as are almost all of the white people I talk to there. Maybe you missed the fact that 2 of the last 3 governors have been Repugs.

The CRA was the final Kennedy legacy.

It's a bit more complicated than that. Kennedy either wasn't able or willing to push the act through. LBJ was indeed responding to the inevitability of history when he arm-twisted and bribed the last southern Democrats to go along with it. In the final count, the Dems came down on the right side, and I consider that to their credit.