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TheDomFather
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Probably best deal I have ever seen for .223 ammo
The cost of reloading 9mm and .223 is it worth it?
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I wish that was for 223. It's for a case of 9mm.
armoredman
Member
Ah, you've seen my wife's closet...
rjbmjb
Member
Like many on this forum, I started reloading to save money and became addicted. Over the last six years, I have loaded 17,000 rounds- 12,000 pistol (9 calibers) and 5,000 rifle (14 calibers), which is a average of around 2,800 rounds a year. Based on what I have read on this forum, I'm not even close to being a "serious" reloader. In addition, I load rounds like 7.62 x 39 and 7.62 x 54R for more than the cost of purchasing the loaded ammo, just because I can. (I also load 12 and 20 gauge shotgun just for the fun of it.) I cast bullets for some of the calibers (mostly pistol and 30 30 and 45 70) and buy plated or jacketed bullets for others.
According to my logs, my average cost per round (not including brass) is .11 for pistol and .27 for rifle. I don't currently load 223, but I do load 9mm. My cost per round for 9MM is .14 (I use plated bullets), which is only a penny or two less than steel case ammo right now. It made more economic sense to reload when the ammo was closer to $1.00 per round. I also don't like steel cases (personal preference), so I would have to pay closer to .20 per round for brass cased ammo.
Based on current prices for the cheapest loaded ammo for each caliber, I saved around $4,200 (almost 60%) by reloading, not counting brass and the cost of equipment. This is .20 per round for pistol and .41 per rifle round. I also spent around $2,000 for equipment (some new, some used), and at least $500 for brass so my net savings is around $1,700. If I compare ammo prices from a few years ago, my net savings more than double (assuming I could have actually purchased the rounds).
This does not factor in the current value of my equipment. I could get over $1,000 selling it on ebay.
I agree with all the points that mstreddy made in his post. I also load for the obscure calibers he listed, along with 7.5 French and Steyr 8x56R. I also like the fact that I can load rounds for my 500 S&W that don't break my wrists.
X2 on armoredmans's post- all hobbies/pastimes have a cost associated with them. If I calculated the cost per hour to drive my $9,000 ATV, I would probably need to make multiple trips to the bar, which would only drive the cost higher.
According to my logs, my average cost per round (not including brass) is .11 for pistol and .27 for rifle. I don't currently load 223, but I do load 9mm. My cost per round for 9MM is .14 (I use plated bullets), which is only a penny or two less than steel case ammo right now. It made more economic sense to reload when the ammo was closer to $1.00 per round. I also don't like steel cases (personal preference), so I would have to pay closer to .20 per round for brass cased ammo.
Based on current prices for the cheapest loaded ammo for each caliber, I saved around $4,200 (almost 60%) by reloading, not counting brass and the cost of equipment. This is .20 per round for pistol and .41 per rifle round. I also spent around $2,000 for equipment (some new, some used), and at least $500 for brass so my net savings is around $1,700. If I compare ammo prices from a few years ago, my net savings more than double (assuming I could have actually purchased the rounds).
This does not factor in the current value of my equipment. I could get over $1,000 selling it on ebay.
I agree with all the points that mstreddy made in his post. I also load for the obscure calibers he listed, along with 7.5 French and Steyr 8x56R. I also like the fact that I can load rounds for my 500 S&W that don't break my wrists.
X2 on armoredmans's post- all hobbies/pastimes have a cost associated with them. If I calculated the cost per hour to drive my $9,000 ATV, I would probably need to make multiple trips to the bar, which would only drive the cost higher.
The only way to save money reloading is to e frugal buying equipment, frugal buying components, not counting our time, then don't fall into the trap of simply shooting more for the same money, or even more than that for more money. Still more cost effective, but we still spent more.
Many of us start out doing well, because saving money was our intention, but then slowly fall into the just reload and shoot mindset, budgeting what we can to it, but not really keeping track of the exact costs.
Many of us start out doing well, because saving money was our intention, but then slowly fall into the just reload and shoot mindset, budgeting what we can to it, but not really keeping track of the exact costs.
Hokie_PhD
Member
So true
I didn't think of this before but, storage is also something we don't often mention. I can store 1000 primers, a pound of powder and 1000 9mm bullets in a lot less space than 1000 loaded rounds. Now I don't keep just components for 1000 but for several thousand which don't take up too much more space than the 1000 loaded rounds that I keep and use for the brass.
Now 223 takes up a bit more space as a pound of powder only loads about 275 or so rounds. But the bullets are actually smaller and take less space.
Granted, brass is a never ending battle of having enough vs too much ( if you really can have too much) but my point isn't unloaded components can take less space if you don't have brass for each round that you have components for.
And while I'm on obscure benefits. I'm all for recycling, so those of us who care about not wasting things, help in using brass over and over!
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
Deals are deals and costs are costs. The bottom line is that I do not want to ever be dependent on laws including the laws of supply and demand to ensure that I have the ammo I need when I need it. So I can either buy up a bunch of the stuff or I can have the parts and pieces needed to roll my own.
VINTAGE-SLOTCARS
member
I buy clean lead ($1.00 a #) and cast my own 9mm bullets. I also coat them. I just started to swage .223 bullets from used 22lr brass. The swage dies from "BT Sniper" were not cheap. The cost for a .223 bullet now is about 1 cent each. I have been reloading since 1973. I don't figure in the cost of equipment as part of the reloading price, it's just the cost of doing business. To me that would be like the price of buying a car and adding that price, gas, and insurance to the miles per gallon. My Cousin now wants to swage so we will share dies and cut the cost down. I am never going to have to buy .223 bullets again.
luzyfuerza
Member
Note that the maximum value of the rebate is $50 per household...https://sporting.myonlinerebate.com/11659/...so you can only buy 1000 rounds and receive the rebate under this offer. I was going to really stock up, and then noted this limitation. Still a smokin' deal.
Nature Boy
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If you don't enjoy reloading it's never going to be worth it
RainDodger
Member
I'm sure anyone can find ammo cheaper than what I spend to hand load quality cartridges. I don't hand load to save money. I hand load for the joy of it, and the satisfaction of creating a high quality load for a high quality rifle. For me, the hand loading is just as much fun and just as satisfying, as shooting
Sure, you can get into reloading for cheap, if that's your goal. You might even realize some savings after a while, if you only buy the required equipment.
Sure, you can get into reloading for cheap, if that's your goal. You might even realize some savings after a while, if you only buy the required equipment.
1stmarine
Member
Exactly! even people who "think" they enjoy reloading, when they get into large volume brass cleaning, preparation, reloading, etc... they
get sick of it! I have two friends who abandoned expensive setups due to the lack of use. So I think starting slowly and simple might tell you if it is something you enjoy or not.
Even if it is just to load a couple of specialized loads and/or magnums some simple equipment pays off based of the cost of some of those rounds.
Hokie_PhD
Member
So so so true.
My first piece of equipment was a Lee hand press. They're not much money, but at the time things were super tight so it was what I could afford to see if I'd like handloading.
The cool thing was that even using the hand press, I knew I'd like loading and I needed a plan to get gear that was inexpensive, but going to make things more enjoyable. So I saved up to get a Classic Turret press and a hand primer. I still used the hand press to deprime while relaxing, and the hand primer to prime likewise. I hand measured my loads then used the LCT to finish the loads. Along the way, I've added gear, and I'm now to the point of using the LCT as a semi progressive. It's not the most expensive setup, but it's good enough to make good ammo, not cost a fortune and get me from starting to knowing how to make more safe quality ammo faster.
I'm with you on starting slowly. Loading ammo isn't an activity to not take your time to learn good practices, to get into good habits and to be safe. Sure some folks can crank out hundreds of rounds per hour, but if your ammo isn't safe that's just a recipe for getting hurt or killed if you're not ready for it. Sure some folks can start reloading on a progressive press, but taking pride in your loading, enjoying the process and not being in a hurry can be a great way to build your skills and to slow down in this insane fast paced world of ours.
jhansman
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Besides the relaxation I get from making ammo, no factory ammo made could get me the sub-MOA groups I get out of my Howa 1500 with the load I have worked up; that was a labor of love. That's the primary reason; dunno if I am spending more or less per round on my other calibers, and I don't really care. At the press, music on, alone, is a place I cannot find anywhere else in my house. BTW, I still use the single-stage Lee Challenger press I've always used, and never have I felt the need for a green or blue turret/progressive/etc. It's all good.
bullseye308
Member
I started around 89 with a Lee anniversary kit & 3 sets of dies for my birthday. I loaded many thousands of rounds with that setup. We had a house fire and lost everything, so I got a Lee Reloader press, dies, Lee molds, and components. I built a bench from leftover lumber from a house being built nearby, & scrounged the ranges for brass. Craigslist netted me 1000 pounds of free lead.
I got back to shooting a few thousand rounds/year and wanted more. I bought a Loadmaster with 4 extra turrets and went at it. For about 10 years I was shooting 16-17k/year, mostly 9mm. My cost for those was ~$35/1000, all I paid for was powder & primers. The press, scale, dies, etc. paid for themselves in no time and that is what I still use 15 years later.
Last year I bought a few new guns I have wanted for ever and ordered a couple times from RMR several thousand bullets in 9mm & 223. 3 of those pistols will get nothing but RMR bullets so it will be more expensive to shoot them, but worth it. The rest get my cast bullets and I still have a couple hundred pounds of free lead for them.
I could have put the money into a smurf(blue)press, but the Springfield Range Officer was money well spent. My Loadmaster runs very well and replacing it with something only marginally faster & 10x more expensive to change calibers in just wasn't worth it. You can reload on the cheap if you are willing to put the effort into it. I recently started powder coating on the cheap. $5 toaster oven from goodwill, $5 red powder from harbor freight, $8 bb's from Walmart, & $2 roll of nonstick aluminum foil from the $ store.
I might have $6-700 in hardware that I have used for many years. All of it paid itself off in the first year and is still going strong.
I got back to shooting a few thousand rounds/year and wanted more. I bought a Loadmaster with 4 extra turrets and went at it. For about 10 years I was shooting 16-17k/year, mostly 9mm. My cost for those was ~$35/1000, all I paid for was powder & primers. The press, scale, dies, etc. paid for themselves in no time and that is what I still use 15 years later.
Last year I bought a few new guns I have wanted for ever and ordered a couple times from RMR several thousand bullets in 9mm & 223. 3 of those pistols will get nothing but RMR bullets so it will be more expensive to shoot them, but worth it. The rest get my cast bullets and I still have a couple hundred pounds of free lead for them.
I could have put the money into a smurf(blue)press, but the Springfield Range Officer was money well spent. My Loadmaster runs very well and replacing it with something only marginally faster & 10x more expensive to change calibers in just wasn't worth it. You can reload on the cheap if you are willing to put the effort into it. I recently started powder coating on the cheap. $5 toaster oven from goodwill, $5 red powder from harbor freight, $8 bb's from Walmart, & $2 roll of nonstick aluminum foil from the $ store.
I might have $6-700 in hardware that I have used for many years. All of it paid itself off in the first year and is still going strong.
This is one reason why I resize and prep brass shortly after shooting it. Resizing, cleaning, trimming and otherwise prepping brass for reloading is not the most pleasant of tasks done in large quantities.
Small quantities do not take much time and the interest level remains through out the process. I store the cases away for a future loading session. I generally shoot up to 200 to 300 rounds at a shooting session and can have the cases resized and in the tumbler in 15 minutes or less.
When I get to the point of of stuffing powder and bullets into the case, I really enjoy that phase of loading. Most of my batches are 200-500 cartridges total these days but even when I do a larger run, I very much enjoy the time spent. Recently, I did a 2800 case or so run of 9x19 that took about 5 days of a few hours each evening. I've got enough 9x19 to last a year or two. Now, I won't have to spend time reloading 9x19 and I can load or work with any one of a number of other cartridges that I shoot.
If I want to do some testing, I already have cases ready to load for the powder or bullets that I am testing. Another benefit of having cases sized, cleaned and ready to load stored away.
It is just my methods for minimizing the unpleasant tasks while maximizing the enjoyment of reloading.
1stmarine
Member
That's pretty good progress. Spreading out the work it seems like a good approach.
I think it goes with everyone's time situation and expectations.
I am a bit OCD when it comes to brass so I even segregate the pistol by headstamp and batch.
Rifle is easier to segregate as it is also easier to pickup and stays more collected but then it takes longer to prep specially military crimped + trimming.
What I have done is to separate the two major tasks and for both I used progressive presses unless I am doing certain cartriges like a large magnum that
is normally low volume anyway.
Lets take for example 1000 cases of the 223 or 6x45 that is same brass to yield two calibers...
A) As brass is collected:
- Wash the cases and let them dry.
- Have the cases segregated by heastamp/brand + year and/or batch. This is a one time deal and after I it is easier to keep it together and collected.
B) Brass prep (1st cycle)
- toss them in a plastic bin, spray them with the bootleg lube and then toss them in the case feeder in one of the reloading presses.
- Here they get simply deprimed and FL sized.
(up to here is one stroke of the press)
B2) Power assisted
- If they need primer pocket conditioning or crimp removed this is done by power station. (also one time deal never needed again for the serviceable life)
- Pocket is also cleaned from any residue
- from the bin they go into a forster 3 way trimming cutter that floats a small powered carrier. I tried many systems and for me this is the fastest way to trim that is
super consistent. trims in under 3 seconds and no need to chamfer or deburr.
- Brass goes into a bin where is labeled to be washed and let dry.
C) Loading (2nd cycle) Clean prepped brass is tossed into the case feeder. No sizing dies on this one.
- case is primed. Very reliable priming system. This is key.
- case is filled with the powder. I have throwers that are very precise I still verify one load every once in a while but do not find many deviations.
- load is gauged.
- Bullet from the feeder comes in.
- Bullet is seated.
- Bullet is crimped.
(All the above is one stroke of the progressive reloader)
Rounds are picked up from the dispenser and tossed into proper labeled boxes for later use.
Some might think this is a bit overkill but the progressive press is capable of delivering match grade reloads.
Match grade ammo is more expensive than carelessly loaded loads. A bit more work in two cycles makes a big difference
and because many operations and done at the same time by the progressive press I don't mind running two cycles.
I do this with other calibers.
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Like cfullgraf, I too process/size brass separately from loading. Not only does it spread it out, loading goes much more smoothly, and without sizing in the mix, you can feel the seating better for rifle, and even for pistol when expanding, seating, and crimping is going on you have a better feel. It also tends to tighten up OALs.
I agree.
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TheDomFather
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This is exactly my approach, have cases cleaned and ready to go!
armoredman
Member
I do the same, just set up the press for decapping/resizing, run a few hundred through, prime them, and store them away for the next loading cycle. Rifle brass gets trimmer in this step, too...which means I have a bunch of 5.56/.223 brass fully prepped including trim and chamfer, waiting to have those milspec primer pockets reamed out when I get my swaging die. 
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TheDomFather
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I do the same, just set up the press for decapping/resizing, run a few hundred through, prime them, and store them away for the next loading cycle. Rifle brass gets trimmer in this step, too...which means I have a bunch of 5.56/.223 brass fully prepped including trim and chamfer, waiting to have those milspec primer pockets reamed out when I get my swaging die.
I finally broke down and bought the dillon swager. Pricey but seems very well made.
armoredman
Member
I have a used RCBS set on the way in, one I'm used to.
FROGO207
Member
It seems a lot of us that have been reloading a good volume and doing it for some time have gravitated to deprime/prep in one cycle and to reload at another time. My issue is that the components (really primers) are more able to be used where I need them as my shooting changes rather than having to take down primed cases or reloaded ammo that I would not use for a good time to get primers to reuse. That said I keep what would amount to enough loaded ammo for a range trip made up ahead for each firearm I have leaving the balance as stored components. Also note that bulk components are resellable, more so than reloaded ammo at a greater price if the need arises in the future.
rjbmjb
Member
I guess it would depend on what you keep for inventory- I have around 50K primers on hand, so I wouldn't have to remove primers from prepared brass to load another caliber. I also keep more reloads on hand for guns I shoot most often, and fewer for guns I don't shoot so often.
I like to keep ammo around for all my guns, so if decide to shoot an Arisaka, Styer, MAS, etc, I just grab the gun and ammo and head for my backyard range
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