The end of the J-frame era

I have lots of snubs. The Airweights are perfect pocket guns for me. I rarely carry one alone, mostly it is an option for covered low ready with a semi at the belt.
 
@Styx "Last, I'm a firm believer in reloading during a civilian self-defense altercation isn't a real thing."

Me too. Video games and action movies and gun games have given people an extremely unrealistic PoV of what being mugged or murdered is like. :)
 
Styx said:
.38 and .357 out of a 2" snubbing have been used and proven to be adequate for self-defense for decades. With the right choice of ammo, the penetration and performance is there to incapacitate any 2 legged threat. I can as can many others, get effective hits on a man sized target at defensive distances. Why don't they make any sense for you?

For what it's worth, I prefer medium sized revolvers like the S&W 686 and Ruger GP100; however, I can shoot both smaller and larger revolvers well enough to defend my life with.
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What doesn't make sense to me is I shoot tighter groups with a revolver🤔
 
PavelSJ said:
What doesn't make sense to me is I shoot tighter groups with a revolver🤔
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That's all I was asking. You didn't say why it didn't make sense. That said, just my opinion, tight groups aka holes on top of each other, matters more for target shooting and competition shooting than it does with defensive shooting. I still get your point now. Thanks.
 
"What mod did you make to that Hogue laser grip? Looks like a change to the activation button?"

My wife wasn't strong enough to activate the stock button configuration. And I found it painful to do so - so I increased the height to make it easier to operate.
 
Tallball said:
Semiautos have way more malfunctions. It's not even close. I've practiced with my snubbies a lot over the past 40 years and can shoot them accurately.

My neighborhood is poor with a lot of homeless addicts sleeping by the creek and the baseball fields. There aren't any "gunfights" (or I would have heard them), but people get beat up and mugged and stabbed. I would much rather have a revolver when Toothless Tommy lunges out of the bushes and grabs at me.
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We had what was probably a magdump in the street behind us, a couple weeks ago, 3:something AM. (I counted 10 or 11 shots.) Not the first time. Yes I count shots when this happens, in the middle of the night. And I've picked up a couple tire irons, in the dirt path to the stop-n-rob that goes through the vacant lot next door.

There are homeless around. (There's a church run shelter a half mile away.) But, I don't think they're the problems so much.

Amazing what one can get used to.

Tallball said:
I have to do daily walks for my cancer rehab. I'll be walking around my neighborhood with my 642 in about an hour. My large and serious dog is a very good deterrent, but I'll have pepper spray, a knife, and a 38 snub with me, just in case.

I usually carry my 642 or LCR in 38 special. I have a Taurus 905 (9mm snub) and CA Pathfinder (22lr snub) for cheap practice.
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Typical carry has been a 6 shot snub. Last couple weeks I've been experimenting on carrying a Glock 19. Working on getting properly set up for a baby Glock, as a step up for a while from the snub.
 
Things like the Glock 26, SIG P365, some of the S&W autos, etc, just make this a no-brainer, especially if the gun is going to be your primary. A slight difference in weight and in most cases, double the onboard ammo, just takes the reload issue out of the equation for the most part, and if for some reason you should need to, its usually a quicker and easier proposition.

Anyone shooting these guns side by side in practice can pretty much instantly see the advantages of the autos over the small, light weight revolvers. If youre being serious about things anyway. And as @Old Dog mentioned, they are just a lot easier to shoot well with, generally have better sights, and that added onboard ammo.
 
As a card-carrying member of the 5-shot snub club, I have to say that if you are ever in a situation (or pretty close to it) you WILL think about capacity afterwards. Odds are very good you could be dealing with 2 or more assailants.

I still do a .38+P J-frame. No, the Airweights aren't fun to shoot at all. Steel is still vigorous, but tolerable.


I do have a couple of higher-cap options I can turn to if desired. And I am glad to have that on the table.
 
One of the biggest problems with those Airweights is, they tend to discourage practice with them. So how can you be proficient with them if you don't practice?

You do need to shoot whatever it is you carry on a regular basis if you want to stay on top of things. I shoot my 642 at least once a month, with full power loads, and my hand hates me for it. Anymore, a 50 round box is about all I want to shoot out of it.

And what you see on target between it, and one of my Glock 26's, is instantly noticeable in comparison. But I can shoot my 26 all day without having that noticeable degradation in accuracy due to the gun wearing on me.
 
Styx said:
I'm not sure we're you got the idea that semiautos have "superior muzzle velocity," because they do not. There isn't any meaningful difference in muzzle velocity between a revolver and a comparably sized semiauto.
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Gosh, I dunno... with Gold Dot 135 grain +P I get a muzzle velocity averaging around 860 FPS out of my 442. With my Glock 43X, and 124 grain Gold Dot JHPs, I get upwards of 1200-1250 FPS.

And the 43X has a far easier trigger pull and isn't nearly as snappy to shoot as an Airweight.

I'm not sure how what you consider "superior" or "meaningful."

Tallball said:
"Last, I'm a firm believer in reloading during a civilian self-defense altercation isn't a real thing."

Me too. Video games and action movies and gun games have given people an extremely unrealistic PoV of what being mugged or murdered is like. :)
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I didn't intend this thread as a tired re-hash of the same ol' capacity debates and the need for reloads. My POV of what happens in muggings and murders comes from personal experience, working the street, getting quality one-on-one time with muggers and murderers.
 
Well for a non-capacity-related answer I still do a J because it is familiar/comforting to me and I still believe in the reliability over an un-vetted semi (real or perceived).


I also already have plenty of the ammo and am not particularly interested in starting over on that front.
 
My S&W J-frame (M&P 340, with custom "down-graded" but snag free black ramp sight) is used as the 'around the house' gun. It's always in my PJ pants pocket, or work pants pocket when doing yard work, etc. I just like the revolver for that niche role, since it's very hassle free. No worries of pocket lint from my flannel PJ pants getting into the action or mag of a semi-auto. Robust, light weight, reliable action, heavy but smooth trigger pull for pocket carry... all nice features of the J-frame.
When I leave the house I prefer a semi-auto though, for more capacity. I don't have an AR-15 to run to like I do at home.
20240711_220440.jpg
 
Old Dog said:
Gosh, I dunno... with Gold Dot 135 grain +P I get a muzzle velocity averaging around 860 FPS out of my 442. With my Glock 43X, and 124 grain Gold Dot JHPs, I get upwards of 1200-1250 FPS.
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Then you misspoke? You meant 9mm generally has more velocity than 38 special and NOT that semiautos have more velocity than revolvers? There are other revolver calibers that get the same or more velocity than your 124g Gold Dot. 22lr, 9mm, 45acp, and 10mm fired out of a revolver and similarly sized pistol will have similar velocities.

As an aside, velocity doesn't mean much. A round with higher velocity doesn't mean much in the grand scheme. Velocity isn't a metric to determine there being more damage or rapidly stopping a threat.

Last, it's impressive that your G43x is getting 1200-1250 fps out of a 3.41" barrel with 124g G.D.... LuckyGunner was getting under 1100 fps with 3.5" M&P9c. Other YouTubers were also getting 1100 +/- depending on barrel length. Speer themselves list the velocity at 1150 fps out of a 4" barrel. Those are some impressive numbers you were getting. That's 50 to 100 more fps than what the manufacturer was getting out of a barrel that's over a half an inch longer!

Old Dog said:
And the 43X has a far easier trigger pull and isn't nearly as snappy to shoot as an Airweight.
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That's to be expected. The 43x is the heavier of the two. Make the 43x 14oz and switch to a steel frame J-frame or the like that's around the same weight as a 43x, and the experience will flip-flop. Airweights and even lightweight semiautos, like the DB9 for only one example, will all be snappy.
 
Last edited:
"Airweights and even lightweight semiautos, like the DB9 for only one example, will all be snappy".

That's why I use an old Herrett Shooting Star grip on my Airweight 9mm J-frame. Recoil with Combat grips is too painful.
 
Different strokes for the same folks 🤔
Well I started my morning with a trip to the range and 60° temperature. Through on jeans and my 442 @ 14.7 ounces plus bullets went into the front pocket. When I got home it was in the low 70°s and put on cargo shorts and a M&P Shield plus @ 20.2 ounces plus bullets in the pocket. After dinner just sitting around the house I switched to my Glock 42 @ 13.8 ounces plus bullets. I did this because my hips hurt. Just putting off a needed replacement....

As mentioned earlier for concealed carry a j frame 38, micro 9mm, and a 380 fill my needs. For a walk in the woods, I like to up the power. That includes 357mag, 41mag, 44mag, and 10mm.
 
I don't really "like" J frames - or nearly any snub, for that matter. As the OP points out, they're generally not much fun to shoot, and at the same time, are among - if not "the" - most difficult of all handguns to hit with. And yeah, you can get smaller guns, lighter guns, higher capacity guns, etc.

But as far as I can tell, there is nothing else which combines weight, size, and horsepower like the 340pd. If I didn't have one, I'd call my dealer today. It fills a need better than any other gun I can think of.
 
I have to say one thing about folks saying snubbie J frames are harder to shoot than a compact or subcompact auto. Harder as in recoil and perhaps hitting a target.
I have carried my 442 off and on for years. I have also owned some pocket .380s and 9mm’s but they are gone now and I am sticking with J frames.
Why? To me recoil is about the same from a J frames with most SD ammo as a pocket pistol, BUT the pocket or compact pistol has one bigger negative for me. The action of the slide under recoil. That reciprocating action just kills my wrist.
I recently sold my Glock 43 and Glock 48. In the past I had a KelTec P3AT, a Remington RM380, a Remington R51 (piece of crud) and a Glock 26. All of them put a serious hurt on my wrist where the thumb connects. The 442 doesn’t hurt that area as badly. Nor does my model 36 or Colt DS.
I am just fine with full sized autos. The compact ones hurt me.
 
My model 642 isn't going anywhere. It served as my on-duty back up gun for most of my career. Though my primary carry gun is my Shield+ the 642 goes for an occasional ride if pocket carry is called for. I still get regular practice with it and can hit well at typical defensive distances.
 
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