The end of the J-frame era

trackskippy said:
Im not dismissing the fact that they happen, everything can fail, but generally when they do, its the user that's the issue and not the gun.
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It doesn't matter what causes the issue. It could be a fluke weak powered round or I limp-wristed. Either way it temporary took me out of the fight and one of the semiauto's inherent weakness caused a malfunction that could be deadly.

trackskippy said:
I shoot both revolvers and autos all the time and rarely have an issue with either, but they all do have issues, and the revolvers are usually the ugliest of them when they do. The autos rarely have a stoppage that cant be resolved in a matter of seconds. The revolvers are usually DRT when they stop.
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Revolvers that are in good working condition loaded with quality ammo rarely have stoppages if at all. There are less things that can go wrong. What I see a lot of people do is compare an out of spec, worn, or broken parts failure that will take a revolver permanently out of the fight versus simple clearable and more common semiauto malfunction. The fact is that semiautos that are in perfect working order malfunction much more often than revolvers that are in perfect working order.

trackskippy said:
But of course, if you don't keep up with your handling skills, failure drills, etc, and know what to do when something does go south, whats it matter what the gun is?
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It matters because the time needed to disengage an active threat and clear a jam could result in a loss of life. In one case that I know of, it resulted in the shooter having his firearm wrestled away from him.
 
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Styx said:
Revolvers that are in good working condition loaded with quality ammo rarely have stoppages if at all.
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The exact same can be said about autos.

With either of them, the biggest weakness is the ammo. Doesnt matter what condition the gun is in. Ammo related stoppages with revolvers are usually a DRT sort of deal, and they do happen enough to not be a fluke. So what then?

At least with the autos, you have a much better chance at quickly getting the gun back into action, and with either, if you cant, then you at least have an impact weapon in your hand should you need it. :)

Im always amazed at how many are oblivious to the fact that revolvers can and do have all sorts of stoppages when you bring it up, and I suppose it's all perspective. If you shoot them enough, over time, you'll get to see all the true ugliness at some point. Where if you dont, you wont.
 
The one shot semi-auto posts remind me of mags that pop off the mag catch but don’t fall out of the gun.

I’ve read about it in some news reports, and it’s one reason I had to modify the mag release buttons on my RM380. It’s also a reason I like the nearly flush Glock Gen 3 mag buttons over the newer version.
 
I completely disagree with you, Trackskippy.

I have nice semiautos in good working order that still malfunction sometimes. Usually ammo, I suppose, but maybe sometimes my thumb touches the slide or my arm moves too much. IDK. NBD. But it happens from time to time. Especially with the 22's.

If one of my revolvers malfunctions, a part broke or a I let my friend talk me into using his handloads again. The things that will make a semiauto mess up will often not bother a revolver. 22's are a good example. If you buy a big box of cheap 22lr, there will be rounds that will slide into a magazine and jam a semiauto that never would have fit into a revolver cylinder in the first place.

Most people prefer semiautos, and that's cool, but they will malfunction more than a revolver.

If someone has time to unjam their pistol while being mugged or murdered, it's an extremely unusual mugging or murder. That stuff happens right on top of you, not 25 yards away.
 
BobWright said:
There are guns that I'ved dreamed/designed as being something really neat. One such gun would be a .38 Special J-Frame Smith, with adjustable sights and a 3" heavy barrel. Sort of a centerfire plinkin'/handy/just because type of revolver.

And another one...................................

Bob Wright
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Like this one that I bought for my wife 32 years ago?...A Smith M36 Target...3" bbl., .38 Spl caliber, and a wonderful companion while fishing...applies to both the gun and the girl I married 54 years ago...and BTW, the M60 with 3"bbl. 357 is just as good when loaded with 135 gr GD's. For defense carry, either will do, tho I mostly tote the M60 now for its SS durability...it's either the Smith or the Sig P365 in that regard. Best Regards Rod

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I’m a past fan of the 5-shot J frame .38 Spl. I bought my first one, an all-stainless Model 640 Centennial, back in 1991. I carried it as a duty BUG in my left rear pocket for a couple of years, until it irritated the nerve in my leg so much it would hurt. Then it went into a vest-mounted holster under my right arm (velcro uniform closure allowed for access). Then I went to an FEG SMK-380, and the 640 was traded off, with a few hundred extra dollars added, for two Model 19 .357’s (a 4” and a 2.5”).

I haven’t sold them off yet, I still have a few J frame .38’s in 1 7/8” and 3” barrel lengths. In the safe resides a 442 and 642, along with a 37 and 36 3”. I also have a Ruger SP-101 and a Colt new Cobra. I take them shooting more for nostalgia, and also to emphasize to myself the fundamentals that make good DA revolver shooting an art. (And I am no Michaelangelo, trust me! ;) )

I no longer ccw a snub revolver, I prefer the Glock 43X. But if I was to ccw a snub .38 again, it would be the 6-shot Colt.

Stay safe.
 
Interesting. I find myself coming full-circle, back to the J-Frame. My first revolver was a 1-7/8” S&W Model 60 Stainless Chief’s Special, purchased in mid-1983, when I applied at a nearby big-city PD. I was age 22. I had learned that I would be able to buy my duty revolver, for a very attractive cadet-only price, while attending the academy, so, I opted to buy a “back-up gun,” to start practicing DA trigger-pulling. I later moved to shrouded-hammer J-snubs, and then concealed-hammer Centennial series J-snubs. About age 40, I semi-retired my Airweight Centennial, a Performance Center gun based on a Model 642, because slightly larger weapons were so much better for my Size L hands, and, arthritis was making it UN-fun to shoot J-snubs, unless I used oversized grips. (An oversized grip, plus a J-snub, does not equal a very concealable package, overall.)

What brings me back to J-Frames? Well, the .32 S&W cartridge, and, more importantly, its cousins with longer cases, the .32 S&W Long and .32 H&R not-a-Magnum. (Please, no .327 Fed Mags, thanks.) Why? Short version: Gettin’ old.
 
Don't get me wrong, I love revolvers. But my intent in starting the thread was simply to gauge how many of our members had arrived at the same point as myself -- giving up on shooting them (it's not that much fun) and carrying them (as there simply are better options in terms of capacity, concealability and trigger pull).

Apparently, we can conclude that despite its myriad disadvantages in terms of trigger pull, capacity, concealability, recoil management, pointability, etc., we still maintain a preponderance of the forum membership that has not given up on the venerable J-frame. Bless your hearts.
 
Well - I actually mentioned capacity at first and was told that you "didn't intend this thread as a tired re-hash of the same ol' capacity debates and the need for reloads".


So bless your heart right back...
 
tubeshooter said:
So bless your heart right back...
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Sorry, was trying to keep it light -- no insult intended -- but I feel I've not gotten real answers on just why so many are compelled to carry a handgun that's (1) more difficult to shoot accurately; (2) can compromise concealment due to cylinder width or mode of carry; (3) is capacity-challenged, compared to comparably sized pistols that can hold 8+1, 10+1, 12+1 of fast-moving 9mm JHPs; and (4) point better, manage recoil better and typically possess somewhat higher muzzle velocity, thereby improving expansion.

Few responding posters seem to admit they're keeping on with their J-frames out of anything other than familiarlty, sentimentality or laziness...
 
No problem - I just tried to participate in the thread in good faith. I saw a number of posts reference reliability (real or perceived) among other things.


As a matter of fact - I had never considered any or all of those factors, and I'll bet nobody else here had either. We'll see the light one day (maybe)...
 
This guy has replaced my M&P 340 for j-frame carry duty since I about shot the M&P loose with too many full power loads.

Usually as a BUG on duty or as a lightweight pocket carry with magnum loads for long hikes or archery elk.

Yes, my LCP is easier to carry but this is the better option reliability/power wise and I can run a snubby just fine. Unless I’m carrying it for bear protection, load out is HOT +P 158 LSWCHP followed by a strip of .357. I plan to carry it a lot more if and when I can retire from cop work.

IMG_0986.jpeg
 
Old Dog said:
To be clear (again), I am not disparaging those that still enjoy and carry their J-frames as their primary carry handgun. I'm simply seeking concrete answers from those that do so, as to why.
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When I carry mine it’s for convenience, lightweight, concealment, power, and (when used as a BUG while on patrol) increased reliability at contact distance.
 
Old Dog said:
(4) point better
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I’m sure it’s a hand size and shape situation, but when it comes to pocket sized guns, j-frames point more naturally for me than any pocket sized autoloader.

Plus, I’ve never had the mag pop off its catch with a j-frame while in my pocket, which has definitely happened over the years with my pocket autoloaders (always in a holster).

While I prefer carrying pocket autoloaders, pocket spurless j-frames have always drawn easier and pointed better for me. I did transition from 5-shot .38s to 6-shot .32 mag since that’s only one shot less than something like a single stack Ruger LCP. But of course, the capacity game got bumped up in pocket autoloaders several years ago to alter that situation a bit.
 
I carry mine because as an airweight it is light, easy to carry, 9mm ammo is easy to find, extra ammo doesn't require a lot of room, it has adequate power, and is a delight to shoot.
 
I shoot the J frame much better than the micro 380's. I think the J frame conceals better. I can draw a J frame from a pocket much easier than any semi-auto. And yes I'm lazy. I'd rather have the J frame in my pocket going out the door than leave a semi-auto in the safe.
 
Old Dog said:
Guessin' the owner of the Seattle smoke shop that exchanged fire with the guys who robbed his store last night was glad he had more than a J-frame when he pulled up and they started shooting at him from the shop....:evil:
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If I owned a smoke shop, or any similar small business, my preparation plan would be much different than what I do for my daily job servicing machinery for customers on their property.
 
chicharrones said:
If I owned a smoke shop, or any similar small business, my preparation plan would be much different than what I do for my daily job servicing machinery for customers on their property.
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This. Arriving at one’s “smoke shop,” at night, is a time to up-gun. Duty/service pistol, with weapon-mounted light. Really, long gun time, if law/circumstances permit.

Darryl Bolke, retired from LEO-ing, and now running Hardwired Tactical, has described snub-guns as being weapons for getting one’s self out of trouble, rather than weapons for going out and looking for trouble. An LEO goes out to look for trouble. I would argue that the owner of a business, especially some types of businesses, needs to be prepared for a significantly elevated threat level, especially if arriving at the business at night time. (I developed this opinion, while working 33+ years of night shift big-city police patrol.)
 
I posted I still carry my J Frames. I like to shoot them also. Last time at the Range I put 150 rounds through my 442. When I’m at home or just around town I’m comfortable with Two J Frames and reloads. Now you gotta use your head a little. If I’m going to a more popular area, if I travel, or uncertain areas hiking and camping. I’ll always still have a J-Frame in my pocket but, a high cap nine is often in my waistband.
 
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