The evolution of the .22lr - the 21 Sharps.

silicosys4

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It only took what, 150 years?


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Thats interesting but I cannot see the utility over the .22lr. The .22lr is what it is, and if the .22lr isn't enough, I don't see the 21 Sharps making enough of a difference to matter.
 
It only took what, 150 years?


winchester-21-sharp-cartridge-3.jpg


Thats interesting but I cannot see the utility over the .22lr. The .22lr is what it is, and if the .22lr isn't enough, I don't see the 21 Sharps making enough of a difference to matter.


Agreed but I’ll buy some ammo one day I’ll sell it to someone at a Big Gun Show for 5 times what I paid for it muhahhah!!!!!
 
Agreed but I’ll buy some ammo one day I’ll sell it to someone at a Big Gun Show for 5 times what I paid for it muhahhah!!!!!
I wish I had thought of that when Kmart had all of the various WSSM ammo on clearance for $6 a box. They had all of the normal stuff on clearance for $8 too at that time and it was selling around $20 everywhere else… I leveled the truck bed with a months pay, and got most of that back selling 100 boxes of .243 for $15 each. I left probably 1000 boxes of the WSSM ammo behind because I couldn’t think of any reason that made sense to buy it and be stuck with it.
 
Well Savage has got on the bandwagon with some relatively cheap rifles that probably shoot lights out so a guy could try this new offering without breaking the bank. Me, I won’t be selling any of my 22s
 
I think the fact that the 22LR bullet design requires lead, and would be very difficult to make with Cu or other. At least that is the logic presented in the article I read. Lead will eventually be banned, which could be the death of the 22LR. Time to stock up...some more....

David
NM
Norma makes copper plated zinc .22lr. Zinc is only about 63% as dense as lead so not as ballistically ideal. But it does exist.

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I don't see this making any waves. 22LR can be very accurate. As well as 22 WMR. This seems like an overly niche cartridge in a realm where 22LR reigns king among cheap and available plinking.
 
What would impress me from Winchester is Super X .22LR ammo that could manage 2.5 MOA or less. I'm not terribly optimistic based on my results from their 100 round jewel cases of the 1300 FPS stuff.
 
Very cool that in this day and age, somehow the engineers got a project past the bean-counters and the marketing’s bods got on board. Bravo. Hope it’s successful.
 
I think the fact that the 22LR bullet design requires lead, and would be very difficult to make with Cu or other. At least that is the logic presented in the article I read. Lead will eventually be banned, which could be the death of the 22LR. Time to stock up...some more....

David
NM
That's the real reason. Going lead free. It's the heel of the 22lr bullet that is the issue.
 
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When watching the video the other day or whenever it was I thought of a big fault in this round but can't remember at the moment lol.
Edit, remembered, most states require a 22 cal minimum for small game. Winchester having a horrible track recored for cartridge support is very worrying, and remember the 8-10 moa 17wsm ammo that seemed to take years to improve.
 
I think to market this, Winchester would have to do something different than they usually do.

They have to engage conversion slide/barrel makers for sorts of pistols (Beretta's, Glocks, Sigs).
Get them to produce 150$ uppers for the autos.
And then sell the ammo at .22LR prices.

Also engage the revolver makes to make the conversion cylinders for the existing guns.

The marketing message is about -- training (in addition to rifle-based hunting applications).

There will be youtube influences publishing 'new tricks' and applications for this round, there will be clubs setups specifically for this, may be even competition tracks specifically for this new round.


Basically Winchester needs to think beyond their typical: 'we have Savage, and others committed to making new rifles for this... ", peppered with the typical NRA and gun mags journey for the intro....
 
If they can make jacketed bullets for the .17 HRM, why can't they make a jacketed bullet the same diameter as a .22LR with a stab type crimp?
 
I don't believe the 22 mag uses a heeled bullet. They could have simply inserted mono bullets into 22 wmr cases. Could even produce different power/velocity levels as is done with 22 rimfire.

One of the big factors in the popularity of 22 rimfire is the economy of the round. This type of change carries no benefit other than temporary appeasement. Anything that makes the sport more expensive is a win for the current crop of bureaucrats.
 
Dumbest. Idea. Ever.

I wouldn't go that far, there is some competition in that area.


I think I'll just wait for the "horrible accuracy from my .22" threads as people put the new backwards compatible ammunition into them, if it ever gains any traction.

Being a non reloadable round it will probably take years for it to gain enough traction to where there will be much choice in ammunition. Midway has one brand listed as "coming soon".

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At more than twice the cost per round than the pages of 22 lr ammunition they offer. I guess that would make choosing ammunition easier though. Instead of finding what your rifle likes, it either likes winchester or it doesn't....

Does make me wonder if winchester found a cure for the bad accuracy that caused CCI to abandon their no lead .22 rounds?

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If they can make jacketed bullets for the .17 HRM, why can't they make a jacketed bullet the same diameter as a .22LR with a stab type crimp?

It's not a jacket, its lead free. They didn't shoot well, why CCI discontinued the above.

If they didn't alter twist rate or otherwise rectify that problem, the 21 sharps will live as short of a life. No one wants a rimfire where a "good set up" will get you 4" groups at 50 yards, for twice the cost...
 
I don't believe the 22 mag uses a heeled bullet. They could have simply inserted mono bullets into 22 wmr cases. Could even produce different power/velocity levels as is done with 22 rimfire.

One of the big factors in the popularity of 22 rimfire is the economy of the round. This type of change carries no benefit other than temporary appeasement. Anything that makes the sport more expensive is a win for the current crop of bureaucrats.


I have wondered from the start why they didn't just use the old .22 WRF case , or a shorter version of it . Then you could at least fire it in .22 Mag chambered guns , like a .38 in a .357 . And whatever bullet they design for it could also be loaded in .22Mag . Having plinking priced ammo in a round that can be used in .22Mag and .22WRF as well as newly manufactured arms seems like a better plan to me . Olin , being an ammo company and not a firearms manufacturer , would sell a lot more of it that way , there are quite a few .22Mags out there that don't get shot all that much due to the price of ammo , and not being really suited to use for edible small game .
 
Seems it would appeal to such a small group of people, that it would be not a sound financial investment. With the .17 HMR and it's variants out there, along with .22 magnum, I personally don't see much, if any advantage, even over the standard .22 LR, other than having something unique.
 
How about a 22 magnum short? Or as @codytsuggestssuggested the 22 WRF (same thing I think). Could be used in existing 22 magnums as a low powered alternative and when the time comes and all lead amnunition is banned, millions of existing 22 LR's would only need the chamber reamed instead of re-barreling or being retired. Of course none of that sells rifles.

Anyone have an estimate on what the weight of a 0.223/4 bullet would need to be for a copper bullet and still stabilize in existing 22 lr rifling?
 
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