The handgun market is not a duopoly

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Frankly I think they listened to the multitude of internet commandos who have been complaining about the trigger dingus for decades.
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I don't know how much you shoot, but the trigger dingus on my M&P and Glock pistols often wears a raw spot on my trigger finger -- I'm starting to develop rough calluses there. I switch to my 1911s for relief, and its one of the things that motivated me to get the p320 -- shooting it after the M&P or Glock provides trigger finger relief much like the 1911. Again I rarely shoot less than 200 rounds per gun in an outing and usually do three or four guns.
 
wally said:
I don't know how much you shoot, but the trigger dingus on my M&P and Glock pistols often wears a raw spot on my trigger finger -- I'm starting to develop rough calluses there. I switch to my 1911s for relief, and its one of the things that motivated me to get the p320 -- shooting it after the M&P or Glock provides trigger finger relief much like the 1911. Again I rarely shoot less than 200 rounds per gun in an outing and usually do three or four guns.
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If I go for extended range sessions I often do the same thing I do when golfing. I apply bandaids to my hands preemptively in areas where I expect wear. But I certainly understand the preference.
 
ATLDave said:
Nobody knows that answer to that question. We know it is more than zero. We know that the issue can be replicated fairly reliably. It's obviously an issue. Doesn't mean Sig is a bad company or that a revised P320 isn't a good gun.
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One reported case.
 
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For the record, I'm a Glock guy. I think the military could have saved a lot of time and trouble by just selecting a G19 off the shelf and had a very good handgun. I'm not convinced the modular approach is that important for the military. In my opinion it makes for a more complex, less rugged gun. Regardless of the manufacturer.

I also recognize that while Glock WAS a trend setter there are other manufacturers that are probably building a handgun now that is just as good. Not that there is anything wrong with Glock, the others have just caught up. But like em or not, Glock is a design that has been proven and I think it could have been a good choice.

That said, I have no complaints with the chosen SIG. It had the features the military wanted, passed the trials and I firmly believe the issue will be corrected. I think it will prove to be a winner. Glocks time in the limelight may be fading. I'm OK with that. Time marches on and things change. I'll probably end up with a SIG down the road.

I would have liked to have seen a USA based winner. I don't know why S&W didn't make the cut. I know they had some serious QC issues when the M&P 1st came out but thought that had been resolved.

I've never owned one, and it wasn't submitted for the military to test, but the Ruger American looks promising. It is quite a bit heaver than it needs to be, but that is my only complaint as of yet. Once more come into use flaws may become apparent.

Same with the FN. That is a gun that I really wanted to like. But the one I had briefly just didn't shoot well. Maybe I just got unlucky.

I tried the XD. Didn't care for it at all. I can tolerate a well designed grip safety like on a 1911, even though I don't think it is necessary. The grip safety on the XD is awful. They may be reliable and accurate, but I'm not interested in one at any price.
 
lysanderxiii said:
One reported case.
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Are you sure? Or is there one case that has generated a publicly-filed lawsuit that has come to light? And others that were reported to Sig that are not in the public record?

Answer: No, you don't know, unless you work in QC or legal at Sig. Neither do I.

In any event, they seem to have a fix underway.
 
lordhamster said:
Frankly I think they listened to the multitude of internet commandos who have been complaining about the trigger dingus for decades.
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ATLDave said:
Or the non-internet-commandos who don't like the flipper. I don't think commando status or "commando" status comes from having one opinion or the other on the flipper.

But, yes, there are a non-trivial number of people who don't enjoy the flipper.
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100% malarkey. People seem to want to complain for the sake of complaining. You can't even tell the "dingus" is even there.
 
stchman said:
100% malarkey. People seem to want to complain for the sake of complaining. You can't even tell the "dingus" is even there.
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Maybe you can't, but I can.

I don't like serrations on revolver triggers, either.

On my USPSA competition gun, I changed out the physical trigger for another one because I liked the feel of it better. Will soon do the same with an AR.

Some people care about the feel of a trigger. You apparently don't. That's awesome, it means you don't have to worry about that. Good for you.

The rest of us are not lying about what we like.
 
wally said:
I don't know how much you shoot, but the trigger dingus on my M&P and Glock pistols often wears a raw spot on my trigger finger -- I'm starting to develop rough calluses there. I switch to my 1911s for relief, and its one of the things that motivated me to get the p320 -- shooting it after the M&P or Glock provides trigger finger relief much like the 1911. Again I rarely shoot less than 200 rounds per gun in an outing and usually do three or four guns.
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Seriously?!!!!! Your fingers are THAT tender?

jmr40 said:
For the record, I'm a Glock guy. I think the military could have saved a lot of time and trouble by just selecting a G19 off the shelf and had a very good handgun. I'm not convinced the modular approach is that important for the military. In my opinion it makes for a more complex, less rugged gun. Regardless of the manufacturer.

I also recognize that while Glock WAS a trend setter there are other manufacturers that are probably building a handgun now that is just as good. Not that there is anything wrong with Glock, the others have just caught up. But like em or not, Glock is a design that has been proven and I think it could have been a good choice.

That said, I have no complaints with the chosen SIG. It had the features the military wanted, passed the trials and I firmly believe the issue will be corrected. I think it will prove to be a winner. Glocks time in the limelight may be fading. I'm OK with that. Time marches on and things change. I'll probably end up with a SIG down the road.

I would have liked to have seen a USA based winner. I don't know why S&W didn't make the cut. I know they had some serious QC issues when the M&P 1st came out but thought that had been resolved.

I've never owned one, and it wasn't submitted for the military to test, but the Ruger American looks promising. It is quite a bit heaver than it needs to be, but that is my only complaint as of yet. Once more come into use flaws may become apparent.

Same with the FN. That is a gun that I really wanted to like. But the one I had briefly just didn't shoot well. Maybe I just got unlucky.

I tried the XD. Didn't care for it at all. I can tolerate a well designed grip safety like on a 1911, even though I don't think it is necessary. The grip safety on the XD is awful. They may be reliable and accurate, but I'm not interested in one at any price.
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If the military had chosen an off the shelf Glock, it would have been the 17, not the 19, but yes, I do agree. Seeing that the sidearm is NOT the primary weapon of our soldiers, the choice should have been more about saving money.

Ruger CEO said they didn't submit as they didn't want to mess with all that is involved in a contract of that nature.

The grip safety on an XD is virtually un-noticeable. A 1911 grip safety is FAR more noticeable during shooting. I like the XDM pistols.
 
You can smooth out a Glocks trigger shoe nicely.

Hopefully Sig gets their $%^& together. The last thing we need are non-drop safe guns out there. Especially DA/SA types that often fall into the hands of newbs with poor taste in holsters.
 
stchman said:
100% malarkey. People seem to want to complain for the sake of complaining. You can't even tell the "dingus" is even there.
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PffffffT!!!!!!

Are you serious?!?!?!?!

The trigger reach is boarder line for me if it didn't have a dingus.... With the dingus, its been a deal killer.

Once my finger is on the trigger face, I can feel it but the feel doesn't bother me.
 
rskent said:
Maybe not, but we do. We assume that a handgun that wins a military contract is well tested and therefore a solid reliable handgun. It seems that in this case that may not have happened.
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"We" implies you, I, and potentially others... don't lump me into that kind of foolishness, as I've never bought into the need to purchase anything simply because .mil uses it.

YOU should assume anything which earns a .mil contract has made a lucrative financial deal, that is all.
 
Jack B. said:
I'm not in LE or any other high pressure environment. Not going to be. But I have never dropped a gun I my gun handling years(over
50). I don't buy guns that are touted as drop safe as I don't intend to drop one.
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All it takes is one moment of carelessness. Farmers don't intend to get caught in power take off shafts. Many do. Cattlemen are taught when they are still in diaprs not to get between a cow and a calf. Many do.

http://www.wlfi.com/story/36176392/man-recovering-after-accidental-shooting-at-monticello-restaurant

This guy is described by his neighbors as law-abiding and cautious. I'm sure he didn't intend to drop his weapon. He did, it was only by the grace of God and the Saints the injury(s) were limited to his hand.

It's all about playing the odds, a farmer getting close to a shaft has very small odds, a rolling guard on the shaft lowers the odds of his clothing or jewelry getting caught. The cattleman having a trained dog with him lessens the odds of the cow getting to him on the small chance of him distracted enough to forget his training. A dropped handgun may be a 1000 to 1 chance. I've seen Murphy in action enough to want a weapon with a million to one chance on discharging just in case I hit the lucky 1000.
 
rskent said:
Maybe not, but we do. We assume that a handgun that wins a military contract is well tested and therefore a solid reliable handgun. It seems that in this case that may not have happened.
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Actually, it appears that the M17 doesn't have this problem. So if people were buying EXACTLY the same thing as the military contract, that would have worked out.
 
rskent said:
Maybe not, but we do. We assume that a handgun that wins a military contract is well tested and therefore a solid reliable handgun. It seems that in this case that may not have happened.
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Let's play a new game... Everyone who thinks that the civilian market P320 and the M17 are the same gun gets to stop posting in threads about the P320.
 
rskent said:
I assume that any handgun that the military chooses is well tested, and therefore a solid reliable handgun.
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Seriously?

STILL?

The civilian P320 was not chosen by the military. The Civilian P320 is not the M17. In fact, the fix for the Civilian P320 is to upgrade many of it's fire control components to M17 parts.

Do the moderators need to make this a sticky?
 
Chalk me up as a guy who isn't a dingus fan. It has less to do with how the trigger feels to my finger tip (I don't like it, but I can live with it), and more to do with making sure I actuate the trigger on larger guns.

I have a RAP in .45 that I am warming up to nicely, but even with the smallest (medium) grip module, reaching the trigger and depressing the dingus is nearly a conscious effort. My fingers are long enough, but the shape of the grip requires me to hold the gun in a specific way.
Upon a couple of dry fire draws, I find my finger dragging across the dingus and binding the trigger for a nanosecond. Not a big deal, but still.

It's one of the reasons I prefer the hinged trigger of the FN, but even that doesn't feel as good as the 320.

A smooth metal trigger, to me, is what I prefer if given a choice.
 
A smooth metal trigger, to me, is what I prefer if given a choice.
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That moves straight back, like the 1911, instead of pivoting would be my choice if they ever made a gun with one that wasn't a 1911!
 
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