The Hi-Point Throwdown

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OK, after this test is ran with the H-P pistol, how about another test with an H-P carbine in one of those carbine courses? Like a 995 or 4095? I have a 4095 and bought a 995 for my grandson, and man are those things fun!
 
Very, very well said.


1911Tuner
<SNIP>The Hi-Point pistols fill a niche. Several actually. Most of them function just fine, and they're accurate enough to keep a body alive when there are people who are actively working to end it. There are an untold number of people who would be alive today if they'd had a Hi-Point handy when The Beast came to call. There are young women who have been forced into the trunks of their own cars who would have been very thankful had a cheap Hi-Point been stashed in that trunk. I wonder how many scoff at those RG revolvers that sold for 35 dollars in the 80s...and then I wonder how many people are alive because of an RG.
<SNIP>
They buy them for a little peace of mind in a nightstand or a glove box or for an old man to place on top of a refigerator...just in case. They're for a single mother who hustles tips as a waitress and can barely keep the lights turned on...and she wants something there to let her sleep a little better at night because she can't afford an apartment on the "good" side of town.

150 bucks ain't such a bad deal if you think about it.
 
I'm not sure this would be the best test for the gun. Steel challenge is based purely on speed, and you're comparing two relatively different guns. When I shoot in steel challenge with two different guns of good quality (S&W revolver and XDM), the revolver is still noticably slower. Doesn't mean it's a bad gun, or that it's any less accurate. What I'm saying is that if the Hi Point is slower, it doesn't mean it's inferior.

I would think that as long as the Hi Point functions correctly, doesn't give too many stoppages, and doesn't adversely hinder the speed of the shooter, I would call it a win for the HP based on price. This is still a great thread and a great idea--I would be interested in seeing how other budget guns do, like the Kel Tec P11, S&W Sigma, Taurus 24/7s and so on.

No one can make the argument that the Hi Point is a better gun than the CZ. It was not designed or priced to be -- my point has always been that Hi Points are adequate. Not the best, just adequate.

I definately support what you're doing, but if I had $150 to contribute, I would buy a C9 and shoot steel with it myself against my XDM :)
 
John Wayne-
I'm not sure this would be the best test for the gun. Steel challenge is based purely on speed, and you're comparing two relatively different guns. When I shoot in steel challenge with two different guns of good quality (S&W revolver and XDM), the revolver is still noticably slower. Doesn't mean it's a bad gun, or that it's any less accurate. What I'm saying is that if the Hi Point is slower, it doesn't mean it's inferior.

I would think that as long as the Hi Point functions correctly, doesn't give too many stoppages, and doesn't adversely hinder the speed of the shooter, I would call it a win for the HP based on price. This is still a great thread and a great idea--I would be interested in seeing how other budget guns do, like the Kel Tec P11, S&W Sigma, Taurus 24/7s and so on.

I think the gun would have to pretty much work flawlessly with no stoppages or break downs regardless of speed or scores.
Reliability is the point of this test i thought and if the OP who is doing the testing knows how to shoot these competitions he should be most prepared to get the gun up to speed with him making adjustments to his game.

I hope the big piece of pot metal finishes with a 100% reliable record with decent accuracy scores. I like underdogs.

Much more fun than seeing someone try it with a supped up exotic HK or the like.
 
Just priced some Hi Points in my area.......$200 for the 9mm and .45

$160 for a .380

I'd rather buy a used S&W Model 10
 
OK, after this test is ran with the H-P pistol, how about another test with an H-P carbine in one of those carbine courses? Like a 995 or 4095? I have a 4095 and bought a 995 for my grandson, and man are those things fun!

If someone's willing to send me a carbine, mags, mag carriers, ammo, and foot the cost of attending a carbine course, I'll happily do so. ;)


I've posted a new update on the blog here.

Just a teaser for you guys, I've since shot the gun in a practice session last Sunday and an actual Steel Challenge match yesterday. Our Steel Challenge matches are held on Wednesdays, so you can expect updates on the test late in the week for the next few weeks.

I'll try to get the stuff from the practice session and the match up and live by this weekend.
 
I have done my own "torture test" on a High point and it performed pretty well, but I would like to see some real torture tests done on some high point pistols.
 
Yeah, that's a lot of setup Justin!! Geeze, are you able to drive up close to where you are setup? This is so cool. I am glad someone is doing this.
 
Just priced some Hi Points in my area.......$200 for the 9mm and .45

for $200, someone on a budget is far better off with some quality milsurp pistols. makarov, pa-63, cz-82, tokarev, etc.

and that's my problem with hi-points. for about the same cost, or only a bit more, you can get some milsurp pistols that are actually quality guns. were i gun-less and in a severe economic situation, i think i'd eat ramen noodles for a couple weeks if necessary, so that i could afford a milsurp pistol instead.
 
for $200, someone on a budget is far better off with some quality milsurp pistols. makarov, pa-63, cz-82, tokarev, etc.

Again...the issue is one of availability, assuming that the potential buyer is even aware of Makarovs and Tokarevs. Many people who buy guns for security aren't gun people. They aren't into guns at all, and wouldn't know a Makarov or a Tokarev if one fell on their heads. They want a gun on the cheap to keep in the nightstand or to go along on a road trip into parts unknown. It's doubtful if they'll even shoot the gun more than a half-dozen times to make sure it works.

Availability. Not so many years ago, police trade-in Model 10s could be had in good shape for 90 dollars. I bought one once for 60 bucks out the door. Rough as a barbed-wire fence, but it was slick as glass and an excellent little revolver. I enjoyed it for many years until I gave it to a female aquaintence who had an ex-boyfriend stalker. She still has it. I've seen shops with as many as 2 dozen at a time. Those days are gone. Old Model 10s have started to gain a certain clooectible status, and they're becoming fairly scarce. The same applies to the former com-bloc milsurps. I haven't seen a Makarov or Tokarev in a showcase in a long time...and the ones that do show up from time to time are often dogs. Hi-Points are new. New sells to the average Joe or Jill who only wants a gun.

Such quality milsurp pistols most often require shopping for. Hi-Points, on the other hand, are a phone call away if they're not actually in stock. Most shops keep a couple on hand for buyers such as the ones described above. The non-shooters who just want a gun and either don't have the money for a nicer gun and don't really want to spend a lot even if they do.

The Hi-Point offers one distinct advantage over the better/nicer/prettier guns. They're stashable in places that most of us would be uncomfortable leaving even a well-used Model 10, much less a pistol that we coughed up 700-800 dollars for.

The Hi-Points...like the truly horrible RGs of the 80s...fill a niche and serve a purpose.
 
Kudos to Justin for giving it a Fair shake! Many wouldn't be as honest I figure, it's not easy, to admit having one's mind made up already :D
 
for $200, someone on a budget is far better off with some quality milsurp pistols. makarov, pa-63, cz-82, tokarev, etc.

and that's my problem with hi-points. for about the same cost, or only a bit more, you can get some milsurp pistols that are actually quality guns. were i gun-less and in a severe economic situation, i think i'd eat ramen noodles for a couple weeks if necessary, so that i could afford a milsurp pistol instead.
Harmon; what makes you think that a Hi-Point isn't a "Quality" gun? Is it because the new price on the pistol is about $150? (That's what a new 9mm hi-point costs here at our local gun shops). You say words like "ACTUAL QUALITY GUNS". Where is your proof, or even anecdotal evidence, that Hi-Points aren't "QUALITY GUNS". Like most people with an opinion of Hi-Points, very few have actually owned one, let alone even shot one. Props to justin for going for an Informed opinion, and not one of ignorance.
 
I agree with harmon in a sense - I´d go for the military surplus as well.

"In a sense" though, as this is Costa Rica not the US. Hi-Points have an exceptional (and proven) warranty which serves well in the states but is basically useless here.
 
You say words like "ACTUAL QUALITY GUNS". Where is your proof, or even anecdotal evidence, that Hi-Points aren't "QUALITY GUNS".

The term "quality" has a meaning and, in terms of firearms, it usually connotes workmanship, finish and even ergonomics; attributes even the most ardent Hi-Point advocate would concede as being sorely lacking in Hi-Point products. Superior design and utilitarian function are other matters and Justin's findings will help add to either the laudings of Hi-Point aficionados or lay to rest any misgivings Hi-Point detractors might have.
As to why a person might purchase a Hi-Point pistol, it has been argued in this thread that the relatively low price of the Hi-Point is irrelevant. Poppy cock! I don't care how well-heeled financially a potential buyer might be, no sane person is going to stash Les Bauer pistols in boats, tackle boxes, pick-up trucks and garages, the usual province of Hi-Point pistols. No, people buy Hi-Points because they can't afford something more expensive or, more likely, because they want to invest in a cheap, reliable pistol to be stored in environs where they don't have to worry about a more expensive pistol being abused or stolen. Cheap is relevant when considering the merits of the Hi-Point pistol.
 
Just a word to touch on the term "quality" if I may.

If a tool or implement will serve the purpose for which it was intended...its "quality" is good enough for its intended purpose.

If the gun is accurate enough to hit a target at the range that the target is presented...the gun is accurate enough for that target.

The Hi-Point's assumed role is an inexpensive pistol that one can use to defend one's life with. If it will fire when the trigger is pulled, and punch holes in an attacker at 20 feet...it's good enough to save your life...or at least (hopefully) prolong the inevitible shedding of the mortal coil long enough to see your grandchildren come of age.

Given its widespread availability and price...and the fact that it's been on the market for several years...is evidence that it's got something going for it. I'd say that quality is as quality does.

I'm assuredly not a Hi Point fanboy, and I'm not rising to the defense of Hi Point's products...but the fact stands that they seem to keep selling all over the country, and in large numbers. If the guns were consistently bad junk...they'd have long since disappeared from the scene.

But they don't. In the law enforcement profession...that's called a clue.

One of my carry pistols is a 1942 USGI Colt that looks like somethin' the cat dragged in after it laid in the ditch and rotted for a few days. To look at it, you'd think it was junk. I've had more than a few people give a little chuckle at the sight of it...until they shoot it. Judging a car by its paint job can turn out to be a major surprise when the GO light trips
 
Excellent description Tuner. Quality is defined by the item's ability to perform it's designed task consistently, efficiently, reliably, and dependably. The hi-point does that; thus it has quality. It doesn't need to be made out of gold plated platinum, or every metal part hand ground, in order to be quality. And for what it's worth; one of the main reasons it's so inexpensive, is because they were able to make a 9mm, 40sw, and 45acp with a "Blow-Back" design instead of a "Lock-Breech". Matter of fact, I think Hi-Point is the only one making modern pistols in calibers OVER 380/9mm makarov that are blow-back. But I could be mistaken.

I do agree that finances plays a part. But if all I cared about was the price, I could be a lorin, bryco/jennings, cobra, phoenix, etc... But then, I wouldn't have a "Quality" pistol that I could be confident would fire when I pulled the trigger, when I needed it, and wasn't going to hurt me in the process.

Is the hi-point my favorite gun? Hell no. Then again, my Kimber isn't my favorite gun I own either. My 2 favorites are my 1989 West German SigSauer P220 45acp and my CZ-82 9mm makarov. One values at about $600 used, the other about $200 used. The hi-point does, at Tuner said, it's job. When you pull the trigger, it will go bang and project the bullet. It's pretty accurate at doing it. It isn't going to explode or have the slide come off the frame. And as you said, I don't have to worry about putting my kimber in the toolbox, backpack, boat, or truck. But I wouldn't do these things with a hi-point either if I couldn't trust it. But I do trust it.
 
lol...Good modding Tuner!

"Quality is as Quality does"


I don't have a Hi-Point, nor have I ever even shot one...but would have no trouble suggesting one for my broke-butt brother in law. At least I'd be confident that it would go *Bang* if he ever needed it to.
 
My 2 favorites are my 1989 West German SigSauer P220 45acp and my CZ-82 9mm makarov.

So, when you can get more of your favorite gun for $200/ea, why bother with a hi-point? For someone in the know, I just can't see getting a hi-point over a milsurp pistol.
 
why bother with a hi-point? For someone in the know, I just can't see getting a hi-point over a milsurp pistol.

Could be that decent milsurps...many people think "USED GUN" when they hear the term...aren't exactly prolific, while new Hi-Points are often found stacked up like cordwood.

Hi-Points aren't really marketed to people in the know concerning guns. They target the segment of the market who simply want a gun to keep around the house and don't want to spend a lot of time in the search. When that type decides to go buy a gun, he/she wants to get it over with and bring it home today.
 
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