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The illogic of universal background checks.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Leanwolf, Jan 19, 2013.

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  1. Solo

    Solo Member

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    IIRC, there is no definite evidence either way.
     
  2. bayesian

    bayesian Member

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    Almost pulled me back in there for a second :)
     
  3. texasgun

    texasgun Member

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    great - ok. let's sell guns to anyone with something which somewhat ressembles an I.D. no questions asked, no background checks...

    jeeze... and then we wonder why we loose public support :rolleyes:
     
  4. meanmrmustard

    meanmrmustard Member

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    Sure it is.

    You fellas give stats and opinions that make UBCS seem dandy.

    Then someone drops logic back into the equation that shoots the whole plan to crap. What's to disagree about?

    Also, where's this 93/7 split? Polls? Surveys? Votes? We don't get a vote...well we did. Unfortunately, reason and some semblance of sanity sadly failed to enter the Capitol last November.
     
  5. meanmrmustard

    meanmrmustard Member

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    I remember when I couldn't read either. I was very young.

    Reading comprehension fails some folks.
     
  6. 9MMare

    9MMare Member

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    I'd rather see it removed. So no, I wouldnt be in favor of increasing its reach.


    And I dont get it as a 'proactive' deterrent, since as we've just seen that it wasnt (my example of the CT shooter and any released felon that just goes and finds a gun some other way).
     
  7. bayesian

    bayesian Member

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    Ok, that's it. No dessert for you.
     
  8. meanmrmustard

    meanmrmustard Member

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    That's not nice.:(
     
  9. 9MMare

    9MMare Member

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    Well not really. Several states have no requirements except the basic background check and fingerprinting and some dont require cc permits at all, like AK, VT, AZ, WY.

    So I dont think you can make that claim. OTOH, I like being able to make the claim that apparently NO real oversight is needed since there isnt any evidence that training for permit holders makes a difference.

    And I do like pointing out that they are indeed surrounded by thousands of law-abiding permit holders every day :)
     
  10. Clean97GTI

    Clean97GTI Member

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    Right now, any released felon can look in their local newspaper, find a classified ad and go buy a gun from a private party with no questions asked.
    A mandatory check or at least something on a state issued ID would throw a red flag.

    and Cho Seung-Hui had a history of mental illness.A more thorough background check or reporting process might have stopped him
     
  11. meanmrmustard

    meanmrmustard Member

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    Or he could find said seller in the paper, meet, kill him and steal the gun.

    No background check required.;)
     
  12. larryh1108

    larryh1108 Member

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    Well, that is the major part of the process. If you passed a background check and were fingerprinted and got your permit then you have proven to be an upstanding citizen during the course of your life. I don't know if the entire population of all the states that require nothing or a small fee to get a permit add up to a CA or NY. The point is the general public thinks anybody who wants to carry a gun can just go buy one and then they become a threat to society when, in fact, the opposite is true. We do everything in our power to not lose this right that we deserve due to our spotless background and history of doing the right thing.
     
  13. Solo

    Solo Member

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    Cho Seung-Hui didn't need a more thorough background check, he needed treatment.
     
  14. JRWhit

    JRWhit Member

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    In all seriousness, I believe we would be much better served with the Idea of a stated status on pictured identification. It is something that we have to provide for purchase of a firearm anyway. It would reduce the cost of processing sales and do the same thing that the ATF form does now. First response I know will be that someone could commit a felony and purchase a firearm before the license is changed. That's no different from what we have now as you can lie on the ATF form after committing a felony. In my area the call goes to the county. If you are under indictment anywhere else they have no knowledge of it. This change would not be perfect but argueably nothing would. This would be just as effective and be less intrusive. As far as having a gun registry, why would the FBI waist there resources when there is already a trail to every gun sold on file? Every FFL is required to keep all ATF forms, with serial number on form, on file for quite a number of years. I cannot remember the exact number but I think it is ten years it may be more.
    This has the same information that a registry would have without the FBI or ATF using there resources to keep it. If you have ever filled out one of these forms for a firearm, then there is a definitive paper trail from manufacturer to your door.
    In an additional note I am starting to think that perhaps a mandatory safety training may be needed. I've never met someone who wouldn't recommend it,and as much as I disgust myself by bringing it up, I am starting to see a serious lack of education among first time owners. I grew up with guns and I have to acknowledge that many things that I see as common sense, first timers are not savvy to. A big failing it that was more than evident recently in a failure to have firearms safely and securely stored. That is something that a little education and safe practice may have solved.
     
  15. 9MMare

    9MMare Member

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    Exactly.

    A released felon knows the law. They wont go looking for a gun casually. The penalty is high. And if they want want to commit crimes again...they will acquire one however is necessary.

    As for checking for mental history...well, maybe 'deeper' checks into that would prevent some deaths but is it worth all of us losing more of our privacy? I'm not so sure about that (in response to previous poster).
     
  16. 9MMare

    9MMare Member

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    ???? anyone who wants to carry a gun can...if they choose to break the law...and many do. And many otherwise law-abiding citizens just ignore that law (ack!).

    And this 'holier than thou' attitude is a bit much. Just because you've never been convicted of a felony does not mean you are some pillar of society. You could still be cheating on your wife, beating your kids, kicking your dog, stealing from work, or just be a jerk overall, etc.
     
  17. bushmaster1313

    bushmaster1313 Member

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    The part about the Mandatory Registration Law being needed is a non-sequitor.

    The proper analysis is that with or without registration many law abiding would be deterred from face to face sales.

    I am not advocating for registration, however, mandatory registration would increase the likelihood of getting caught breaking a "no face to face" law.
     
  18. justice06rr

    justice06rr Member

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    Obama didn't figure out ****.


    There is no way to financially fund a UBC or Mandatory registration of ~300million firearms. That is the biggest hurdle they will face. We are already in a downward spiral with his 2nd term that its not even remotely possible to enforce; not saying they wont try.

    Which is why they go after "scary" features and mag capacity instead. Its also why these stupid gun laws are limited to certain states. The government can never pull off a UBGC ( I shorten it to UBC ) because of states like Alaska, Texas, Arizona, and Florida etc.
     
  19. goon

    goon Member

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    Is there anyone on this board who honestly thinks that your real name couldn't be figured out by an evil power bent on the domination of American citizens? Have you ever wrote a letter to a representative? Ever served in uniform? Have a CCW permit? Ever bought a gun at a store with a 4473 on file for it?

    I have done all the things above. I am sure that if there were a hypothetical "they" who was out to track down and eradicate people like me, they wouldn't need to use an instant check system to find me. Hell, they could probably just look on Facebook.

    As much as I thoroughly oppose an AW ban or magazine capacity restrictions, I do believe that legal guns become illegal guns through sales without background checks.
    I support a system being created for private sellers to be able to run a check and record a number.
    With the rights we have also comes responsibility. If your conscience is truly clean with the idea of not having background checks, then write your congressmen. As for me, I support it - not because I want to give the anti-gun people something as a concession, but because I think it is the right thing to do.
     
  20. Kiln

    Kiln Member

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    Only an oblivious moron would want an end to private sales. The reasons should be pretty obvious to anybody with even moderate reasoning skills.

    Give an inch and they'll take a mile. Believe that. Every other country that has ended up completely disarming the (law abiding) populace has started with baby steps. That is what is happening here under the guise of "common sense gun control" laws.
     
  21. goon

    goon Member

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    As I understand it, even the Swiss with their universal issue of assault rifles to each male citizen, have background checks and require a license to buy a handgun. My home state of PA requires all handguns to be transferred by a dealer and a second form specifically for the state must be completed unless the transfer is between immediate family members.

    Anyone who has been through PA can tell you that no one there is giving up their guns.
    Apparently the Swiss also are not too worried about it.

    I am not even advocating that permanent records ever be kept - just allow average guys to run a check for private sales.

    If your concern is that an out of control government could use background check records to trace and eventually target gun owners, what do you think will happen when they trace your THR account? Or when they see the monthly purchases on your credit card from Midway and Cabelas?
     
  22. Al Thompson

    Al Thompson Moderator Staff Member

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    I think every argument has been stated, re-stated and flogged. :)
     
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