The Importance of the Pending Elections [in regards to the future of the 2A]

[Warp]

SO you need something you can not possibly get, since he's never been a politician. Meanwhile, Hillary has a solid record of voting ANTI-2A...Trump could not possibly do any worse. Read his position. He has a NY carry permit and carries...obviously he's come around and seen the light.

And for those of you who are going to sit home on election day and feel self righteous as you watch Hillary be sworn in, and watch our liberties get squashed over the next 4-8 years. You may feel proud, but the country will suffer for your stupidity, arrogance, and misplaced pride. People did that with Romney, and look what the last 4 years got us. Keep doing the same thing and expecting different results...

You asked. That's the answer. You can't be even close to sure of which way a politician will vote until they have done so.

Romney wanted an AWB and spoke against the 2A...Bush was going to sign a continuation or re-instatement of the AWB. Why would the next candidate be any different? The R's an D's will all sign away our Rights and Liberties.

I'll be throwing away my vote once again, as I vote for somebody I want, not "against" somebody I don't.

 

[Elkins45]

Would be nice if Trump wins, finds it boring and steps down. 3/4 of the people on the ballot scare me, but Pence is the one who doesn't.

 

[david58]

At this point, Hillary appears to be a shoo-in, as Trump will likely not be able to continue to withstand the media until November. Let's be sure to get conservative Senators and Congressmen/Congresswomen elected this fall - it will result in that beneficial gridlock in the Capitol Bldg, which keeps them mostly out of our lives. And pray that our representatives grow a pair (each) and we can see them refuse to confirm the President's SCOTUS nominees.

I can always hope, can't I?

 

[vamo]

Very important, unfortunately neither major party has given us an acceptable candidate.

Edit: If you're like me and just can't bring yourself to vote for either of the 2 major candidates there will be a very pro gun 3rd party candidate on the ticket, at least show up and send that message, instead of staying home.

 

[358Hoosier]

Several of you are going to throw away your vote, or just stay home. You're HELPING Hillary, that's exactly what she wants. She, along with the media, will be demonizing him until the election in order to get you to do this. You're going to be their pawn.

Their are ONLY 2 candidates that have a chance of winning this election, PERIOD. Vote the better of the two. Anything else is a waste of time. If McCain and Romney didn't get your vote, then you are guilty of getting Omaba elected both times. That's just the reality of it, despite your pride and throw-away ?message? vote. Guess what...NOBODY got your message, and nobody will yet again this year either. Trump IS the message.

Trump is throwing over the tables and sending a message to the politicians, ESPECIALLY the Republicans...which is EXACTLY what we've been asking for. They VERY reluctantly have him as the nominee. He may not be your ideal messenger, but he's the only one we've got at this point.

 

[grampajack]

It's no telling how many justices will be appointed in the next eight years. If Hillary is the one replacing them, we'll undoubtedly be living under a communist oligarchy for at least the next 20-30 years.

 

[basicblur]

I'll be throwing away my vote once again, as I vote for somebody I want, not "against" somebody I don't.

What's the old saw from the Pogo comic strip?
We have seen the enemy... :banghead:

 

[basicblur]

Tom Gresham has a good take on the upcoming election:
1. Sorry, "perfect" is not running this year.
2. It's time to put on your big boy pants and use your head (not your emotions).
3. Any vote not for Trump (love him or hate him) or staying home is a vote for Hillary.
4. If Hillary is elected, you can kiss your gun rights goodbye.

 

[barnbwt]

The obvious answer to this is: A record of voting pro-2A

Or of donating to pro-RKBA groups, or of public statements in support going back a fair ways (since words are cheap), or even the ability to reiterate anything that's in that lovely policy paper when queried, and especially not actively promoting unconstitutional gun control laws like "No Fly No Buy" while claiming to be a friend of gun owners. Any one of which can be easily demonstrated by someone outside civil service if they actually follow our cause.

This no longer has anything to do with Trump; he's the nominee, it's settled, what happens, happens at this point, for better or worse. What matters now, at least to me, is working to ensure gunowners who actually care about gun issues will support people with proven records on gun & civil rights going forward, and not drive them off at the behest of leaders who lack those crucial qualities. We will likely survive either Trump or Hillary, anything that'd actually break the nation is well beyond either's ability to influence (and that's a good thing, BTW).

Their are ONLY 2 candidates that have a chance of winning this election, PERIOD

Why are we doing this, again? I mean, electing our leaders through a republican process in the first place? Is it so we can 'win,' or is it because we need to stop the other guy, or is it because we want leaders who will actually represent our interests & abide by the constraints we've placed upon their authority? The prospect of Hillary being the end of America is perhaps a cause for uprising to stop her, but it is not an argument in support of another leader who promises to exceed his authority & will therefore likely fail to preserve our civil rights.

Trump IS the message.

"I am the State" --Louis XIV

If Trump is the message, it is no wonder the message is so confusing. The only message the people are sending is "we're angry," but not really over who, what, when, where, why, or how, because anger isn't actually a message. Actually, I'm not sure it's even that, but rather "we want to win no matter what" without any regard for how it is achieved or the consequences. Frustration without purpose...waiting to be given a purpose.

TCB

 

[barnbwt]

Tom Gresham has a good take on the upcoming election:
1. Sorry, "perfect" is not running this year.
2. It's time to put on your big boy pants and use your head (not your emotions).
3. Any vote not for Trump (love him or hate him) or staying home is a vote for Hillary.
4. If Hillary is elected, you can kiss your gun rights goodbye.

1. Nope, he sure wasn't, nor will he ever, nor were most expecting him to be here this time
2. Emotions are precisely how we got Trump, pure logic is how the (D) party settled on Hillary. Neither logic nor emotion alone are founded in principles.
3. Power derives from the consent of the governed; it does not merely 'exist' to be divvied up from a fixed supply
4. Only if she has a favorable House & Senate, which will be the case no matter who wins if we & our nominee especially don't do a better job campaigning for down-ballot seats (instead of trying to purge significant portions of support from the party)

What's the old saw from the Pogo comic strip?
We have seen the enemy...

It was originally about littering, but yeah. And boy howdy is it ever accurate, because there are lots of different people with different beliefs & motivations, who are somehow able to manage to generally work together toward common cause in this country. I guess you might say it's actually uplifting in a certain way, that we can mingle with our 'enemies' and still function.

When I think about who the enemy might be, I think about where we were approximately nine months ago;
-Unprecedented failure by gun control to do anything at the federal level
-Unprecedented low support for new gun laws in the populace
-Unprecedentedly unpopular assumed nominee of the gun control party
-Historically impressive slate of candidates to choose from for the opposition party, variety of backgrounds, tons of relevant experience & track records, most fairly charismatic & well spoken, solid political connections both up to the leadership as well as down to the grass roots
-Resurgent gun rights supporters, perhaps more than at any time since the revolution or civil war, awakening to demand favorable federal policy for the first time in decades, only this time refusing to compromise
-An opposition party unified & spoiling for a fight with the anti-gun party, confident that any likely candidate would prove more than a match for the weakened ruling party

And where we are now;
-Literally two least mutually-popular, most divisive candidates running
-The opposition party that previously had staunch gun rights constitutionalists gradually gaining numbers & authority since 2010 is now actively working to purge & replace these representatives with sycophants of the executive
-The candidate chosen by the opposition party is seeking to replace the most conservative wing (i.e. the constitutionalist pro-gun wing) of voters with disaffected socialists who lost their voice in the anti-gun party this election
-Both candidates pursuing at least mild additional gun control laws, both promising assorted infringements on civil liberties indirectly related to gun rights
-An anti-gun party victory looks more plausible almost every week
-An opposition party fractured & fighting itself as a battle to change the core message & principles of the organization rages, even after the official nomination

If you think about what events or ingredients could possibly transpire to achieve this frightening reversal, there are few that don't involve Trump

TCB

 

[basicblur]

OR as Chris Christie (not that I'm a fan) put it:
Sorry folks - this election is binary - you only have two choices.

 

[easy]

I went with the choice of Critical, simply because any time you have to worry about a vote affecting your 2A it is critical.

 

[ColoradoShooter77]

I'm with the "most important election in a generation". The consequences of a Hillary win will be devastating and last for 20 years into the future. The judicial appointments alone make it extremely important.

I despise Trump and his attitude/demeanor.....but I will be voting for him!

If Hillary does win....expect an ammo rush the likes of which we have never seen.

 

[Warp]

Several of you are going to throw away your vote, or just stay home. You're HELPING Hillary, that's exactly what she wants. She, along with the media, will be demonizing him until the election in order to get you to do this. You're going to be their pawn.

Their are ONLY 2 candidates that have a chance of winning this election, PERIOD. Vote the better of the two. Anything else is a waste of time. If McCain and Romney didn't get your vote, then you are guilty of getting Omaba elected both times. That's just the reality of it, despite your pride and throw-away ?message? vote. Guess what...NOBODY got your message, and nobody will yet again this year either. Trump IS the message.

Trump is throwing over the tables and sending a message to the politicians, ESPECIALLY the Republicans...which is EXACTLY what we've been asking for. They VERY reluctantly have him as the nominee. He may not be your ideal messenger, but he's the only one we've got at this point.

I will vote for whom I want to be president.

You are free to do as you see fit with your vote.

 

[Kendal Black]

This is several years old, and a bit long, but when you vote for gun rights you are not really a single issue voter, at all.

http://shootery.blogspot.com/2013/06/single-issue-voters.html

"Because the right to keep and bear arms thus closely relates to the question of the place of the individual in society, anyone who is consistent in his thinking will have views on gun control that are indicative of his views on the larger question."

The article was not written with Hillary in mind, but this sure does seem to capture her views:

"If you pragmatically realize you cannot ban private gun ownership outright, though you think that would be a good thing, then it is perfectly self-consistent with your thinking to support things like the misnamed assault weapons bans and limits on magazine capacity. The net effect is to leave the citizenry substantially less capable than they were of defending themselves. That is why you feel satisfaction at such laws even though they have no impact upon crime and criminals. The criminals still have thirty shots in their rifles, but that is another issue for another day. You can feel good that Joe Citizen does not. What if Joe needs to defend himself against the criminals? He shouldn't do that! What if he someday needs to fight off tyranny and oppression? Same answer!"

There is more at the link. http://shootery.blogspot.com/2013/06/single-issue-voters.html

 

[Speedo66]

I don't think it's very important at all. We've seen that even a president in his second term with no fear couldn't get the things he wanted done.

The sky is not falling.

 

[MIL-DOT]

Tom Gresham has a good take on the upcoming election:
1. Sorry, "perfect" is not running this year.
2. It's time to put on your big boy pants and use your head (not your emotions).
3. Any vote not for Trump (love him or hate him) or staying home is a vote for Hillary.
4. If Hillary is elected, you can kiss your gun rights goodbye.

This, and a few other posts, got it right. I've tried to make the same points here, and on other forums, more times than I can count, but we keep running into some bizarre degree of obstinate,delusional idiocy that nothing seems to penetrate.
This idea that voting for a zero-chance 3rd party canidate sends some kind of "message" is so pathetically naive I don't think there's any way to rationalize around it. This supposed message means less than nothing, because nobody's listening.
As unpleasant and unpalatable as it is, I'm afraid we have no choice but to accept the possibility (and I really meant 'likelyhood') that it really is, all over.

 

[MIL-DOT]

I don't think it's very important at all. We've seen that even a president in his second term with no fear couldn't get the things he wanted done.

The sky is not falling.

Dude, you have ZERO clue what is just around the corner for this country (and for that matter, the world). :banghead:

 

[Warp]

I don't think it's very important at all. We've seen that even a president in his second term with no fear couldn't get the things he wanted done.

The sky is not falling.

Please read the thread before responding. You are grossly, horribly, ignorant of the issue being put forth.

Hint: Supreme Court justices

 

[ColoradoShooter77]

If Hillary wins AND the Dem's gain control of the Senate......bye-bye gun rights.

 

[Kendal Black]

"Third party" and "write-in" are, in American presidential politics, synonyms for "loser."

You know what they say about those who do not learn the lessons of history...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...ances_in_United_States_presidential_elections

So it's going to be brand D or brand R. We know just what Hillary thinks about your guns.

 

[Warp]

We also know how many horribly anti-Liberty anti-Freedom anti-Rights laws are passed by the Brand-R, simply because they are considered less evil than their counterpart.

Except that at every iteration, they both seem to take a little step to the left.

 

[Kendal Black]

So then, Warp: "One lump or two?"

 

[vamo]

I voted for Bush, McCain and Romney, because I viewed them as lesser evils than their oponents. I cannot say the same for Trump. He will never have my vote, but neither will Hill.

 

[Rodentman]

I don't comprehend how one can hold a gun mfr responsible for the actions of a gun user. Seems to me just a way to get gun mfrs to shut down. Ban imports, reduce supply toward zero...is that the real goal?

I fear for the country regardless of who wins the election.