The M16, the controversy just never ends

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Surely you arent suggesting the military issue Marlins and Winchesters.?
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Not really I guess. What I was asking is: What can you issue to a truck driver who rarely uses or cleans his weapon, but still needs it to work? I am not sure anything would. As noted above, a levergun would be hard to clean. The story at the end of the article was what I was thinking about.
 
This just in, from HK's marketing department:

In a world of compromises, some people put the bullets in the magazine backwards...

But it doesn't matter, because our gun is on the cover of the Rainbow Six video games. Look how cool that SEAL coming out of the water looks... If you buy a $2,000 SOCOM, you will be that cool of an operator too. And chicks will dig you.

At HK, we stuck a piston on an AR15, just like a bunch of other companies have done, dating back to about 1969. However ours is better, because we refuse to sell it to civillians. Because you suck, and we hate you.

Our XM8 is the greatest rifle ever developed. It may melt, and it doesn't fit any accesories known to man, but that is your fault. If you were a real operator, you would love it. Once again, look at Rainbow Six, that G36 sure is cool isn't it? Yeah, you know you want one.

And by the way, check out our new HK45. We decided that humans don't need to release the magazine with their thumbs. If you were a really manly teutonic operator, you would be able to reach the controls. Plus we've fired 100,000,000 rounds through one with zero malfunctions, and that was while it was buried in a lake of molten lava, on the moon. If you don't believe us, it is because you aren't a real operator.

By the way, our cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns like the G3 and MP5 are the bestest things ever, and totally worth asinine scalpers prices, but note that cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns from other countries are commie garbage. Not that it matters, because you're civillians, so we won't sell them to you anyway. Because you suck, and we hate you, but we know you'll be back. We can beat you down like a trailer park wife, but you'll be back, you always do.

Buy our stuff.

Sincerely

HK Marketing Department
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How True....

Larry, as usual, you have nailed it. Anybody who has ever dealt with the "elite" at HK can only agree with your comments....
 
Not really I guess. What I was asking is: What can you issue to a truck driver who rarely uses or cleans his weapon, but still needs it to work?

an AK
 
You forgot the part about H&K's legendary service department. I think they were probably the prime driver in Emergency Response Teams changing from MP5 subguns to AR15 patrol rifles.
 
wait...Correia, you have shattered my dreams!

Dear Sir,
Why must you crush a young man's dreams this way. I have a buddy from high school that is in Force Reacon, and a sniper. He claimed to me that it was the 26 mile marches with full gear, the dive training, and sniper school that made him what he was- although he didn't use the term "operator," that is what many would call him- and he is quite modest and quiet. Little did he know, that I would be able to be just as hardcore an operator once I saved enough money-
With that HK SOCOM, I totally, for only $2K (?) could pown him- and with less sweat
And doesn't buying a rifle labeled a "Marine Sniper" also automatically make me as good a shot as he is, not to mention give me ultratactical mall-ninja skills.
Oh why, why do you do this to me...I was going to spend all my student loan money to buy your Zombie Outbreak Survival kit, but now, I am but a shell of a man.
I guess I will just have to accept that I must actually be an operator "i.e. go through the training" and not just buy the equipment to be ultratactical- my lowly Springfield XD will have to serve me for now, in wimpy 9mm Luger, and my non-tactical Smith and Wesson Highway Patrolman- although maybe I could take some Krylon paint to the finish to make it a "tactical tiger-stripe" pattern.

just my 2 cents.
 
Its all about having te best rifle for the masses

There is a reason we have very few M14's in service today and that is because of combat load and giving the best rifle the masses can handle. I don't like the 5.56 personally. I think its underpowered. HOWEVER, its the light recoil, low weight of the rifle and the increased combat load that continues to make it the primary weapon.

Being a volunteer force, you need a rifle that john or jane q. public can carry and shoot reliably. If the russians had a sight like this, they'd be complaining about the AK and drooling over the M4.

Any gun will jam. Its a machine with moving parts being used in adverse conditions. Any bullet will kill. You just either have to hit them in the right place and understand the the religous zelots out there already regard themselves as dead when entering combat. They will continue to fight until dead or incapacitated.

If there is one problem with Army Ordinace its that there are a bunch of full bird colonels trying to gain a star by creating the next "big" item. Likewise with corporate america, unless we slap a NIKE sticker on the stock, there is little incentive not to charge top dollar for anything.
 
The military Times newspapers were bought by Gannet Publications several years back. They are the same people who bring you that fine example of accurate reporting and deep indepth stories called USA Today.

They have since lost a large part of their subscriber base. I subscribed to Army Times for over 20 years. I dropped the subscription a year after I retired, not because I was no longer interested in what happened in the Army, but because the quality of journalism had dropped so much. Gannet is aware that their quality and editorial bent has cost them readership because questions on the surveys they have sent me with renewal offers came right out and asked if that's why I dropped my subscription.

As for the HK 416 being so much better then the M4, you have to remember that we're talking apples and oranges here. The HK 416s are mostly shorter barrels then the 14.5" barrel on the M4, the piston operating system does fix the problems associated with making those short barreled weapons run. However you aren't going to give every soldier or Marine a 10" barreled carbine. The loss of terminal effects from shooting M855 or MK262 ammo from the short barrels at distances greater then 100 meters isn't a good tradeoff.

I'll know that the HK marketing people are working overtime if we see a big article in Armed Forces Journal about the HK416. That was the marketing plan that tried to foist the XM8 on the US military.

Jeff
 
The reason we don't go to the M14 is recoil and combat load. Average load is 100 rds of .30cal vs. 200 rds of 5.56. Similarly, the recoil is much less. Remember, its the whiz kids that started this. X soldiers carrying Y1 rounds firing Y2 rounds is expected to kill Z enemy. X*(Y1*Y2)=Z
 
"Plus we've fired 100,000,000 rounds through one with zero malfunctions, and that was while it was buried in a lake of molten lava, on the moon. If you don't believe us, it is because you aren't a real operator."
Right. I saw that test with my own eyes. The Glock didn't perform too badly in the Lunar Lava Tests - until we tried the thicker lava of the Janssen Crater in it. It was like pouring concrete in it. Thinner lava, of the Hawaiian area, doesn't noticeably impair operations.
 
That story at the very end is about a truck driver. There is no information on how well his rifle was maintained or anything.
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It's worth noting that every weapon system issued to the 507th failed during that ambush, up to and including JMB's own M2 .50 cal. That says a lot less about weapons systems, I think, than about a command environment that was not exactly emphasizing basic soldier skills/responsibilities in a combat zone.
 
HorseSoldier, thanks for saying that better than I did. That is what I was trying to get at regarding this article. I got the impression that soldiers who were not front line combat troops were not well trained or practiced at weapon maintenance and that is something the Army has had to change in this war since everyone is a potential combat soldier.
 
Great story Correia! Though I feel compelled to write that I am in no way biased against the Stoner rifles. Just about everything we had fell victim to the moon dust, even my pea shooter in the first picture:D Cleaning and PMCS is nice and all, but I wasn't about to tear down my pea shooter in the middle of a long drive up Tampa or Jackson.
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I like the pics! I think .45guy has solved the rifle debate. Just give everyone SAW's. :evil:
 
45guy, that first picture with the camels... the story just about writes itself... :D

"Look out Jimbo! They're coming right at us!"
 
Three cheers for Correia defending AK accuracy. You know, I think the people who complain about an AK's accuracy, never bothered to adjust the sights on it. Also, while I understand lack of accuracy at great distances, call me crazy, but isn't such accuracy difficult to achieve in a heated firefight anyway regardless of weapon. Granted, I've never been in combat, but I'd think that at typical urban engagement distances (sub 100 yards), AKs and ARs have relatively equal accuracy levels.
 
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