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The making of a select fire 10/22

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by MachIVshooter, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    I decided to go ahead and post about this one, because it was a fun conversion, two, because I did it quite a bit differently than others have and three, to address the rumors which circulate about how "easy" or "quick" full auto conversions of semi auto firearms are.

    I was originally going to use a Remington 597 to abuse my suppressor prototypes, but I had been given this 10/22 many years ago by a friend after he discovered it had sustained severe water damage while it was in the case. The barrel was deeply pitted, many other steel parts were badly rusted, and even the aluminum had pitting. This was probably 15 years ago, and I had done kind of a billy joe bob bullpup conversion on it and painted it with hammered finish Rustoleum, then pretty much just forgot about it. Fast forward to this month, it dawned on me that it was an ideal candidate because I had no money in it and because I had a take off SS barrel with faux suppressor that was left with me after a barrel swap. So I tore it out of the makeshift bullpup stock and discarded the original barrel, shortened the SS barrel to 12", and scored a free take-off stock from my friend who runs a retail gun shop.

    Now came the fun.......and the frustration. First of all, there isn't a lot of room inside a 10/22 fire control housing. Ultimately, I wound up ditching the bolt hold open to make room for the auto sear. The second aspect of the 10/22 that makes full auto conversions a bit different is the disconnector arrangement; it's not a separate lever which disconnects the sear, but an integral part of the trigger assembly. If you try to take it out, the firearm won't work at all.

    Anyway, first order of business was figuring out how to make the disconnector stop disconnecting. This involved modifications to both the hammer and the disconnector lever, as just bobbing the tangs on the hammer isn't enough, because the hammer spring will still depress the disconnector lever.

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    Once I got that squared away, it was time to go about figuring an auto sear. Not terribly complicated if one is somewhat familiar with full auto or select fire weapons, but the specific geometry takes some figuring. The hammer also gets a secondary cut for the auto sear.

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    Next was the bolt, which not only needs to be cut to trip the auto sear, but also needs anti-bounce weighs and, I found to make it run reliably with a wider variety of ammo, a cut that causes the bolt to hang on the hammer just a little when coming forward. This cut also serves as a bolt hold open, since that was removed.

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    I found that tungsten weights were necessary to stop bolt bounce, but that made the bolt too heavy for all but the hottest .22 LR HV ammo, so I milled away more material to get it back down to 6.5 oz.

    After some tweaking of auto sear timing and anti bounce weight travel, I had it running full auto reliably, but I wanted it to have a semi-auto function, so I tore it apart again and designed my selector. I ended up milling it from 4140 chromoly and heat treating

    IMG_2657.JPG
    The little pivoting finger at the bottom makes use of the angled gap between hammer spring and disconnector. When rearward, it clears both. At the forward position, though, it causes the hammer spring to depress the disconnector, giving semi-auto function. My design does not take the auto sear out of the loop; it catches ahead of the main sear, then drops the hammer to the main sear when the bolt closes.

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    The selector pivots on an integral pin, which sits in a hole on the receiver. It is retained in position by a simple music wire spring with two V-shaped bends in it.

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  2. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    The stock also had to be inlet for the selector.

    IMG_2660.JPG

    There's more than one way to skin a cat, and 10/22 machine gun conversions have been done in all manners. I glanced at a couple of well known conversions such as the Noreen, but in the end, I felt I could to it better my way. In all, between the design, manufacture/modification of parts and tuning, I probably have about 15 or 16 hours into this conversion. I haven't put a shot timer to it, but I'd say the cyclic rate is around 1,200 RPM.

    IMG_2668.JPG

     
  3. adcoch1

    adcoch1 Member

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    That is very cool. I've seen fa 10-22s before, but not select fire. Very neat too, the parts look like they belong in there.
     
  4. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    If only that were transferable...
     
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  5. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

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    Yes, it needs to be emphasized that the OP is a Class 2 SOT manufacturer that can make "post samples" like this. Ordinary folks must not try this at home.
     
  6. Ryanxia

    Ryanxia Member

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    Thanks for sharing that's neat. So with the bolt hold open gone, does it dry fire on the last shot after the mag is empty? Will that damage it over time?
     
  7. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    The 10/22 has never incorporated last round bolt hold open, which is one of the reasons I was going to use a Remington 597. Stock 10/22s have a manual bolt hold open, which many people modify to release automatically when the bolt is retracted. My design will allow the bolt to release either by drawing it back or by slapping it forward like a Garand.
     
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  8. rodensouth

    rodensouth Member

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    Nicely done as usual. Thank you for giving us peeks at your projects.
     
  9. ontarget

    ontarget Member

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    Very cool. I'm all green with envy. A full auto .22 would be the most fun you could have in the back yard. Well almost.
     
    milemaker13 likes this.
  10. Odd Job

    Odd Job Moderator Staff Member

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    I like it. Me wants!
     
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  11. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    Mine is from 72, and pristine. Put a 3 round shot thingy on it but it broke. Yours is downright genious!
     
  12. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    Definitely, I always thought that a full auto .22 would be the most fun machinegun to own... You could blast away a brick in full auto glee, secure in the knowledge that you only really spent $25 for the day.

    @MachIVshooter

    I saw this video pop up on my YouTube account and was instantly super jealous. Very cool project, and as usual sharply planned and expertly executed!
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
    ontarget likes this.
  13. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    A dealer near here had a transferrable 10-22 with John Norrell trigger pack, full auto and integral suppressor. When he got tired of hosing down the range, he sold it for a considerable profit.
     
  14. pdsmith505

    pdsmith505 Member

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    A quick search shows transferable 10/22's running in the $20k range.

    Neat project MachIV
     
  15. Deltaboy1984

    Deltaboy1984 Member

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  16. horsemen61

    horsemen61 Member

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    Dang op that’s awesome
     
  17. Stevie-Ray

    Stevie-Ray Member

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    Sounds like those full-auto air guns, that you try in vain to shoot the star out of the target, at Cedar Point.:thumbup:
     
  18. a_canadian

    a_canadian Member

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    Dang it, I tried that game at our local summer faire every year for maybe 30 years, and got within the tiniest tip of one star point more often than not, but never quite did it. Expensive nonsense. And I know it's bottom level spray and pray, as the BBs just shoot out in all sorts of directions. But it'd be fun to frame a properly cleaned target, and give whatever prize to some sorrowful looking kid. Then last year they banished that booth. Guess it was too shooty for our political climate. There's still the infrared nonsense with all the little animals and the piano player... But only a matter of time before that gets chopped for political incorrectness as well.

    Fantastic, well thought out work as ever OP, admirable stuff, and fun too. Maybe you could set up your own little star target range at home, invite guests to shoot all the red bits and win a prize!
     
  19. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    In vain? I remember winning several prizes with that game back in the early 70s. I always remember them pouring the steel tube of shot into those guns after you gave them your quarter.

    Wonder if a fellow could buy one of those guns today?
     
  20. Ruger/1022

    Ruger/1022 Member

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    Thanks for posting. I like reading about
    Select fire 10/22. Do you plan on testing the design and making changes, or leave alone and just use as is.



    Greg
     
  21. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    Very cool.


    What is a class 2 SOT manufacturer and how does one get that status?
     
  22. Telekinesis

    Telekinesis Member

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    A class 2 SOT (otherwise known as a maker of fun things) is someone with an 07 FFL (manufacturer, non destructive devices) who also pays the 02 Special Occupational Tax. The SOT allows FFLs to pay a one-time NFA tax (once per year) to transfer as many NFA weapons as they want, as opposed to the $200 tax on each transfer like the rest of us.

    For a 01 FFL, their corresponding SOT is a 03 (this is where people get the incorrect "class three weapon" thing). For a manufacturer you would get an 02 SOT. 01 SOT is for importers.

    The cool thing about being an 07/02 is that not only can you build NFA weapons (including post-sample machine guns), but you don't have to ask permission. All you have to do is file a Form 2 (notice of manufacture, think a NFA form 1 but for businesses) within IIRC close of business the next day and you are good to go. No pre-approval required. Though to be fair, even 07/02s have to wait like 01/03s to transfer stuff they don't make.

    To purchase (or more correctly, transfer) post sample machine guns that were not manufacturered by the 07/02, they still require a demo letter from a government agency (local police usually) - so it's not a license to go and collect/buy as many machine guns as you like (unless you have a good friend heading up a law enforcement agency who likes to play with MGs too). There are some exceptions for other SOTs going out of business and liquidating their MG inventory and things like that. Demo letters are not required for weapons manufacturered by the SOT themselves.

    Unfortunately unless the machine gun is a transferable MG or a pre-sample (as opposed to a post sample), once the FFL/SOT gives up their license they have to divest (sell) all of their machine guns. That means whenever MachIVShooter decides not to renew his FFL/SOT, he has to sell that cool 10/22.

    I feel like I got a little off track... anyway, in order to get an 07/02, you have to be a FFL and actually be in the business of selling weapons - same as with any other FFL. Once you pass that hurdle, I understand it's pretty easy to get the SOT, you just have to pay the tax.

    Also note that with a manufacturer's FFL you *may* be subject to a few thousand extra in fees for ITAR. It is run by the state department not ATF, and there has been talk of it being eliminated for FFLs. I unfortunatey haven't had the chance to read the actual ruling, but what I've heard made reference to "manufacturers of sporting weapons" being exempt from ITAR. I'm not sure if applying for an 02 SOT (ie non-sporting weapons) means that the FFL will be back in the purview of ITAR. Maybe MachIVShooter can answer that one.

    Short answer: start a business and pay a little extra in taxes and you too can make machine guns.
     
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