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The New-Age .45 Colt - by Max Prasac

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by CraigC, May 3, 2016.

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  1. USSR

    USSR Member

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    Yes you are. And you are the one making definitive statements favoring one design over another, not me.

    Okay, here we disagree again. Can you handle that someone doesn't agree with you?

    Listen to yourself. Why is it so important to you that everybody agrees with you? Simply present your case and leave it at that.

    Ah, when I made my statement about a heavy .45 caliber SWC at 1100fps being suitable for anything East of the Rockies, I hadn't taken in consideration there being penned up African game animals to be "killed" rather than "hunted". Sorry, my mistake.

    Don
     
  2. Shane in MT

    Shane in MT Member

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    I don't have a lot of experience with the WFN, and similar. I have loaded up some Laser-Cast 310gr in the 44 Mag. Have shot them out to 70 yards or so with good accuracy.

    IMG_1988.jpg

    IMG_1980.jpg
     
  3. Shane in MT

    Shane in MT Member

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    In keeping with the original post, I'm a newby to the 45 Colt club. Just got a Blackhawk 45 convertible about a month ago. Put some micarta grips on it, and lovin' it.

    P4300016_zpsnrr1b4yl.jpg


    So far just loading general purpose SWC loads.
    45%20Loads_zpslukfkrlg.jpg

    Probably will feel compelled to cook up a stomper load at some point.

    The WFNs in the 44 above were a 'good idea' for spring walks when the bears are coming out of hibernation and looking to eat about anything.
     
  4. USSR

    USSR Member

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    Here is my preferred bullet for big game:

    Mp-molds-colt45_hollow20point_3.jpg

    It comes out of my mould at 265gr, and I use a suitable alloy that allows for expansion without breaking up at 1100fps. If I were to not use the hollowpoint pins, the solid bullet would weigh about 280gr.

    Don
     
  5. MaxP

    MaxP Member

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  6. MaxP

    MaxP Member

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    Don, how do you define "big" game?
     
  7. USSR

    USSR Member

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    Quote:
    Have you used your 270 grain load on elk or moose?

    To which I answered:
    I also previously stated that I felt my load would be suitable for any game animal East of the Rockies, which in all likelyhood is all 99% of us guys East of the Rockies will ever hunt. If you want to go to Japan and hunt Godzilla, have at it.

    Max, I feel no need to explain to you my ethics regarding the taking of game. But, again, what is this obsession with having everyone think as you do?

    Don
     
  8. eldon519

    eldon519 Member

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    It is not so much a matter of thought as actuality. Isaac Asimov once described this phenomenon as the false notion that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." To the outside observer, you admit to not having been there and done that and are telling the guys who have that they are wrong based on.....your thoughts? If I thought the earth was flat, does that thought deserve indulgence?
     
  9. MaxP

    MaxP Member

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    Alright, let me dial this down a notch. Is it unreasonable of me to ask what you have based your conclusions on? If one is arguing or defending a case or a point, surely they are reasonably expected to produce some evidence supporting their position, correct? How is this unreasonable? In my line of work it's not enough to make declarations without having done the work to prove my conclusions to a reasonable level of accuracy. It goes to credibility. I am open minded enough to accept evidence that is reasonable and not simply make up my mind, ignoring the facts. And on that note, I'm out. I see that we have different standards.
     
  10. murf

    murf Member

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    maxp,

    i know you have done a lot of big game pistol hunting and wonder if my 325 grain lbt load @ 1275 fps is adequate for a quartering shot on an elk that starts behind the ribs and breaks the far shoulder? just looking for your opinion.

    thx,

    murf
     
  11. MaxP

    MaxP Member

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  12. murf

    murf Member

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    thx maxp. using a cast performance 325 gr. lfnpb

    murf
     
  13. lopaka

    lopaka Member

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    Max, many thanks for the write up.

    I'm actually lusting over the Ruger Super Blackhawk 6.5" Bisley in 480 Ruger you reviewed in American Hunter (wish it was 5.5"). Want.

    Have your book. Good stuff.
     
  14. MaxP

    MaxP Member

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    Murf, that is one I haven't used, but have used a lot of different bullets from CP and they have all been outstanding.

    Thanks, lopaka! Both of my new SBHs (.454 and .480) have proven really accurate -- I'm very happy with them. Which book do you have of mine?
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2016
  15. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    Wow, just found this!! Good read and thanks MaxP and CraigC !

    I just happen to be a .45 fan myself!! Maybe I'll have time to get in the woods some day!!

    Mike
    www.goonsgunworks.com
    Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
     
  16. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    Really??? Is that what you were doing when you posted this absolute:

    "Actually, no need to use that heavy of a bullet at that velocity/pressure level."


    Agree? No. But if you're going to post the above, you're going to get debate.


    How does the snide comment about "penned up animals" help your argument? How is it even relevant? No one argued your point about game "east of the Rockies" but you stated unequivocally that heavy bullets like the 335gr are unnecessary for any game any where. You're wrong.

    We have stipulated the very large game these heavy bullets are appropriate for since post #3. You act as if we have not.

    However, there are 1500lb moose, 400-600lb hogs and 800lb black bears "east of the Rockies". All of which beg for a better bullet than a Keith SWC.

    Since we're getting personal and snooty, the bottom line is that you are a deer hunter and have no idea what bullets/loads would be appropriate for game larger than that. What you really should have said is that YOU do not need anything heavier than a 265gr at 1100fps. Fact is, some folks hunt game much larger than deer and for those critters, heavyweight LBT's are a necessity. Whether it's water buffalo in Texas, moose in Maine or Cape buffalo in Africa. You gonna use a 265gr SWC on a $20,000 Cape buffalo hunt? Before passing judgement and making unnecessary personal comments, you might stop to think that killing wild bovines in Texas could be in preparation for something a little more involved. :rolleyes:
     
  17. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    Thank you!


    The meplat is a wee bit small but it's a great penetrator.
     
  18. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    I tested the 310gr TrueShot and it's an impressive bullet. It has a huge meplat of .370" and flattened slightly but still penetrated well. I'd love to test them on critters.
     
  19. lopaka

    lopaka Member

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    "Big Bore Revolvers" is the one. I was not aware of the Ruger Revolver one until you asked the question and I went to Amazon. Not to the point of getting a revolver tattoo, but that book might push me over the edge.


    Bob
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2016
  20. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    I'm not really into handgun hunting, have no problem with those who do. But if I were, I think the revolver in the OP would be about as near to perfect as it could get. I've had several of the Blackhawks over the years in various calibers. I just don't much care for the looks or feel of the standard guns. The new model Vaquero I like, and I like the Bisley grip and 5.5" barrel length on this gun. I don't have one, but someday I might.

    As far as caliber and loads go I'd hunt anything with this gun and load I'd hunt with my 30-06. The limits are range and ability to hit vitals with a handgun. I can make that happen much farther with my rifles. But if I were within 30-50 yards, (my limits, not necessarily the gun/load) I'd feel pretty confident.
     
  21. USSR

    USSR Member

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    CraigC,

    Since you seem to be reading challenged, here is my complete post (#2 post in this thread) in which I predicate from the very beginning that my opinion is solely base on typical animals found "East of the Rockies":
    To further clarify what game animals that I am referring to, I would list elk, moose, and black bear, and I am confident that my 280gr non-HP SWC would completely penetrate these game animals. No, I have no absolute proof of this, but having seen the level of penetration with a heavy .45 slug, I am confident. I have no interest in canned hunts, although if that is what you are interested in, more power to you. I simply have a good bullet mould that I can create HP or solid SWC's with, and "for my purposes" serves me well. You seem to have a good design that serves you well for your purposes, which are much different than mine. So please don't misstate me by saying I said "...unequivocally that heavy bullets like the 335gr are unnecessary for any game any where". Good luck with your hunt in Texas.

    Don
     
  22. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    You still have yet to address the points I made about the very significant difference in meplat size between the Keith SWC and a WFN. A difference greater than that between the .40S&W and the .45Colt.


    Seems to me that that statement stands alone, everyone here took it the same way and you had plenty of opportunity up to this point to amend that.


    Thanks for yet another jab. Your opinion of what you incorrectly refer to as a "canned hunt" is irrelevant to the discussion.


    You would probably get away just fine with a perfect broadside shot. A 335gr or 360gr LBT would provide greater flexibility and insurance. But of course, your mind is made up so I don't actually expect you to try for yourself.


    No one ever argued against your bullet for your purposes. We have made it very clear since post #3 that others might have different purposes and have an actual need for a heavier bullet. Which you have refuted, based on nothing but uninformed opinion.


    We know but this is the internet, where an uninformed opinion is just as good.
     
  23. USSR

    USSR Member

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    Ah, CraigC, I have been assimilated. I am Borg. I now completely agree with you. I will throw away my mould and all my bullets and buy whatever you say is good for me. Are you happy now?;)

    Don
     
  24. ECVMatt

    ECVMatt Member

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    Many, Many years ago....after reading up as much as I could from Ross Seyfried, I purchased a Ruger Bisley and had the barrel cut to 5.5 inches. I loaded up some 325 LBT's with a full dose of H110 and headed off to Texas pig hunting. I wish I could find those old pictures, but I hammered 10 or so pigs and that has become my standard load for the last 20 years. There are lots of different bullets out there, but that combo has proven itself over and over.

    A few years back I added the SS 5.5 with an ACP cylinder. I guess that one could be my forever gun if I had to only pick one. Although the .45 Colt can easily be loaded down, it is nice to throw in the ACP and just shoot for fun.
     
  25. 35 Whelen
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    35 Whelen Contributing Member

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    The implication has been that WFN style bullets penetrate deeper by virtue of the fact that they're WFN's, which makes no sense. Anyone who's hunted at all regardless of the firearm used, knows a larger frontal area, relative to bullet diameter, reduces penetration when using bullets of like weight. So, take two bullets of the same caliber and of like weight, one a WFN and one a SWC, and the one with a smaller frontal area is sure to penetrate the deepest.

    Regarding the penetration tests, comparing a .45 caliber 260 gr. SWC to a .44 caliber 335 gr. WFN is pointless. Of course the heavier smaller diameter bullet will penetrate further than the lighter larger diameter bullet. Simple physics, no testing required.

    Here's the shoulder of a buck I shot a couple of years ago with the bullet pictured; a Keith style SWC. A fella doesn't need a set of calipers to see the would channel is significantly larger than the diameter of the bullet and about twice as large as the meplat.

    buckshoulder-1_zpscbe93d7f.jpg

    Another from the heart of the same buck shows where the bullet creased the heart, again creating a path much larger than the diameter of the bullet.

    Buttonbuckheart-1_zps9caf9815.jpg

    FWIW, that bullet struck the buck at around 50 yds. loafing along at a little over 900 fps and even at that pedestrian velocity exited the body. Seems like it may have even broken a rib coming or going. I know, I know, it's a little deer, but the point is a SWC style bullet can make a nice large wound channel. Would a WFN have made a larger wound channel? Maybe, but the buck wouldn't have been any "deader". And please don't tell me that larger animal s have "tougher" muscles. There's hardly a week of my life that goes by that I don't eat venison and I can tell you in all certainty that the steaks thereof ain't NEARLY as tender as those from an elk.

    Interesting statement in a thread in which the topic is has turned to shooting animals that "start weighing closer to a ton" with cartridges that aren't quite as powerful as those fired from an old Trapdoor 45-70; a rig to which most hunters would turn up their noses as "obsolete and underpowered". ;)

    35W
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2016
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