The OutlawKid

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by Shortgrub, Jan 21, 2021.

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  1. Shortgrub

    Shortgrub Member

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    I just received my latest two Pietta's from this gentleman yesterday. This is the 2nd set of Pietta's he has done for me. All four of equal craftsmanship. The best I can do with pictures, I shake too much


    upload_2021-1-21_10-31-31.png
     
  2. ShotgunDave

    ShotgunDave Member

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    He's done four of mine as well. He deserves all the accolades he's getting.

    Nice sets you have there too.
     
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  3. brewer12345

    brewer12345 Member

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    What exactly did he do for you?
     
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  4. Shortgrub

    Shortgrub Member

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    He slicked them up, timed them and added a few of his touches. Added his hand spring and a post with a band on the hammer to keep caps from getting into the action. All 4 handguns have virtually the same crisp trigger pull and smooth actions.
     
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  5. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    Thank you mr.shortgrub! Them guns were gems! And thank you mr.shotgundave! Newer Piettas are my favorite to work on. As for what i did...i timed them, adjusted the cam and bolt leg, removed the stamped steel trigger/bolt spring (they always break and are over powered and too stiff) and replaced it with a two piece torsion wire spring set, added a cap post to prevent cap jams, added a hammer sheild to prevent any fouling or cap fragments from getting inside the gun via the hammer slot, and installed an action stop to prevent the hammer from over travel which also helps the internal parts from causing additional wear and tear.
     
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  6. Bibbyman

    Bibbyman Member

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    I'd like to see a picture of the hammer shield. Please.
     
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  7. ShotgunDave

    ShotgunDave Member

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    Here ya go Warden.

    IMG_1842.jpg
     
  8. Shortgrub

    Shortgrub Member

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    Yep. That's what it looks like.
     
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  9. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    Here's some more photos posted by 45 Dragoon along with descriptions in posts #2 through #9 in this thread. --->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/action-shield.874575/#post-11632053

    Notice how it curls upward in the bottom photo.
    I couldn't see how it was designed until he posted these photos.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Bibbyman

    Bibbyman Member

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    Thanks,

    Does it work?

    I can see where it may keep cap fragments out of the action. But the fragments will still be in hammer slot.
     
  11. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Has anybody shot a sound original?
    How did it handle caps?
     
  12. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    The Kid rocks. That's the truth.
     
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  13. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    Yes, it works. It keeps fouling out of the action as well as fragments. The curl at the end keeps fragments out of the action and keeps presenting them for removal (turn the revolver upside down). The one in the picture was for demonstration, that one wouldn't fit in the revolver. It's a big hit with my CAS customers.
     
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  14. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    Another view.
    This one showing a smashed cap that will stay on the shield (and out of the action) until the cap is "dumped".

    20180503_125918.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
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  15. Bibbyman

    Bibbyman Member

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    Thanks,

    I've looked at that hole left by a standard ham and thought about filling it with something. Gets me to thinking..
     
  16. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    I reveived the taps! Thank you very much!

    When tapping the steel trigger guard to add an action stop...i found that for some reason the steel used by pietta for his two guns was harder than usual. I broke a couple taps trying to install action stops...even used tons of high quality sulfur based drilling oil. Never broken a tap as i go slow and easy and clean out the bits of steel/brass as i go. But this steel was very very hard. When i work on guns i dont expect reimbursement for tools that get used up...but mr.shortgrub was kind enough to send me some extra taps as a "tip" for the work i did. THANK YOU SIR!! it was very much appreciated and will go to good use!
    20210122_122635.jpg
     
  17. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    I haven't shot mine yet but from what I've read and seen via "capandball" youtube channel is that the originals had much stiffer hammer springs which helped prevent blowback etc. My original army and navies have very strong mainsprings. I haven't been brave enough to try to shoot mine yet but I hope to at some point.
     
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  18. Shortgrub

    Shortgrub Member

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    I'm sure it will be for good use. The story behind the shipping adventure is worth that.

    Shortgrub
     
  19. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    You ought to shoot them. No one will thank you for not shooting them, after you are dead. Yesterday I put a dozen rounds through a long rifle that's been in the family since 1845.

    I'm not big on the light main-spring thing...seems to be the rage, and the SAS shooters seem to like them, and the makers and smiths seem to be catering to it, some say a light spring is better for the nipples, (which are easily replaced) but yes, I've seen the hammers blowing back on two revolvers I've shot recently. One had a very light spring, this '62 has a somewhat stiffer one, but it tends to blow back, although the first and one time I've shot it was with a slug, which was making a little more pressure than a ball. If it blows back with 15-18 grains and a ball, I'll be frustrated for sure.

    I'd rather have/buy a pistol that has a too heavy main spring, and lighten it up, than a weak one that has to be replaced, miss-fires, and lets the hammer blow back.
     
  20. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    I use stock springs only...i dont lighten them one bit. Theres a trick to it though...i lighten the excessice force inside the gun. Like the bolt arm and cam and built a two piece torsion spring set to replace the stock stamped steel bolt/trigger spring. All the things are over built and apply heavy force and friction in areas that cause the gun to feel overly hard to cock. When people receive my tuned guns they wear that ive lightened the main spring...but its left stock and has the full downward force of the strong stock spring yet doesnt feel that way when you cock the hammer back.
     
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  21. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    Well, it may not be everyone's "cup o tea" but typically, a "tuned" revolver is one that functions smoother, easier, with precision, is 100% reliable which "normally" means it has lightened springs because it takes less tension than the stock tension for that part to do its intended job. The higher tensioned springs tend to mask flaws in the factory version of the revolver. Therefore, a tuned revolver isn't less "manly" because it doesn't have "strong" or "heavy" springs, it means it will work longer, faster, with less work from the shooter and with much more mechanical precision . . . which will put a much bigger smile on the shooters face.
    As far as use in a shooting sport where speed is a factor, lighter actions tend to be faster than heavy actions. Thumbing an 8 lb. hammer five times means you're moving 40lbs rather than 20lbs. with a 4 lb. hammer . . . at the end of the day with a lot of shooting, one thumb will have a lot more wear than the other . . . not to mention if the thumbs in question have arthritis . . . you don't HAVE to have heavy springs, you can if you want.
    As far as blowback through the nipple, that's what the cap post is there for. Blowback can't push a hammer back past the cap post. As bad as it may or may not seem, that is where cap guns are today. None are "competition" ready or "dead nuts" reliable with longivity out of the box . . . but they all can be made to be.
    Comparing original examples to todays offerings is futile without original style caps (since that seems to be the biggest complaint). We have what we have and for the most part, the best offerings today are superior to the originals . . . just as cars today are far superior to the originals.

    In the end, you don't have to have a Rolex to tell time, some appreciate the work that makes them possible though . . . most will never know or understand.

    Mike
     
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  22. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    I will keep the mainspring stock...which works great for most people as it feels way lighter after i have made internal adjustments...but i have had a few customers ask me to lighten the main spring even more or they will install one of them lighter aftermarket springs that are made by Wolff. They work great and the cap poat prevents any blowback as mr.dragoon45 said. I leave it up to the customer. But i definately understand how some customers want an even lighter spring due to arthritis etc as a lot of folks in our sport are old timers...also some females prefer to have very light springs because their hands arent strong enough. A customer of mine...mr.woodnbow...sent me a beautiful second gen colt and it was soooo stiff and had a mainspring that was as thick as a jeeps leaf spring. He wanted it smoother and lighter so that his wife could use it with ease. I worked the insides and used a stock pietta spring and wow wee was it smooth and light...but each gun is an individual...another gun with the same set up may not feel as light. Other guns i would have had to shave metal off of the mainspring to match the same lightness. So remember ...what works for one gun doesnt always work for another.
     
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  23. Bibbyman

    Bibbyman Member

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    We do Cowboy Action Shooting and I've seen people with handguns with springs so weak, you can almost see the hammer fall. One guy has to go around at least twice on most stages to get all cartridges to go off - but he has light springs.

    I've ask some of the fastest shooters in the sport what weight springs they use. All use nearly factory weight springs. I'm guessing for reliable function but also for fast lock time. They shoot so fast they can't wait for the hammer to fall slowly.

    Last summer Missouri Lefty (one of the top shooters in the sport) shot at our range. We were on the same posse. I shoot video of our matches so I put together one with us shooting one on one. I'm shooting a Remington Whitmore Lifter 10 gauge, two Colt SAA in 38WCF (one made in 1906, the other in 1996) and antique Marlin 1894 38WCF that I rebuilt from junk. The air was dead calm and nearly 100% humidity. Enjoythe smoke!

     
  24. robhof

    robhof Member

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    I can also attest to the action job without lightening the spring making a Big difference; my Walker that I sent you, was almost impossible to cock single handed before I sent it to you and I was amazed when you said that you didn't lighten the mainspring as I was easily able to single hand cock the pistol after I got it back. EXCELLENT WORK!
     
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  25. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    Getting rid of a lot of action friction (factory combo spring) will make the overall experience better for revolvers made in the last 5-6 yrs. but the 70's, 80's, 90's with 9/10 lb. hammer draws will need extra attention. A mainspring is a mainspring and overall tension won't be reduced enough for a 9/10 lb hammer draw to be 4,5, or 6 lbs. without attention to the mainspring itself. The mains of late are definitely lighter than the older ones but removing the combo spring tension from the older ones won't make it disappear! It's kinda like saying 10 lbs. minus 2 lbs. = 4 lbs. . . . it doesn't. I've been doing this a long time but Math hasn't changed for thousands of years so it is what it is. I measure each and every revolvers' hammer draw and trigger pull and whether the trigger has a positive or negative engagement. Not taking away anything from the "kid" (I'm glad he showed up, I haven't taken on any real new work since the summer just to catch up!!) but let's be real ! Removing the action all together and measuring the hammer draw by itself won't go from 9 lbs. to 4 lbs. . . . it just won't . . . so, as I said, I'm glad someone is interested in tuning S.A. revolvers and I am more than happy to help in any way as well as answering questions in a public forum.

    CAS shooters can get light sprung actions and win State championships (my revolvers have won championships with Colt, Remington and Ruger platforms). A fast lock time is most important for punching paper rather than movement from target to target where fast, smooth "movement" is important. Maybe some cowboy's don't really know what is needed . . . anyway, just some food for thought.

    Mike
     
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