The P320: your gun handling skills are the problem

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Oh brother. Everyone has dropped something in their lives. Nobody ever wants to drop a gun but it does happen. Your gun shouldn't discharge if you do drop it.
 
I managed to drop my Scorpion before I even got to shoot the first round through it. Dumb move, but it didn't go off. I have a dented rear sight to remind me of "things happen."
 
Tirod said:
I think a lot of armchair range shooters are getting it all wrong. They consistently insist that SIG has done wrong when the facts are open and out in the public.

SIG not only passed all industry drop testing standards, they added more. SIG is not being incompetent or bush league about any of it. THE DROP TEST VIDEO PRODUCERS ARE. They are performing abuse that has no support in the drop testing protocols, they are not firearms engineers, they are just video commandos jumping to conclusions for the youtube results. And they make MONEY on hits. It's to their advantage to sensationalize this.

Supporting them throwing guns onto concrete or hammering on them isn't High Road, neither is jumping to conclusions and smearing SIG.

Bottom line - if you drop your gun, you are the problem. I note very carefully that the PROFESSIONALS in the trade aren't the ones making videos or claims on line - other than to suggest that it's actually video rabble rousers and their fans who are really making the uproar.

Again - who literally is going to make money on this, to the detriment of SIG? Who took advantage of a very narrow window of opportunity to raise a non existent issue where SIG was already stockpiling parts and had production scheduled to halt in order to retro fit 500,000 guns for free?

Somebody saw time slipping away and took a page out of the political handbook - Never Let A Crisis Go To Waste.

You are being manipulated by the same media masters who aren't getting any money from politics in the off season. Supporting the witch hunt against SIG isn't High Road. They have gone above and beyond to fix an issue that has 4 of 500,000 guns reported.

More people have shot themselves in the leg with a Glock, yet Glock is not at fault and their trigger is perfectly safe? If you mishandle a SIG and it falls on the floor, tho, the public is in full torches and pitchforks mode blaming SIG.

I don't see how that is High Road. I see it as being one sided and blind to the facts. Mishandling firearms is the cause for either negligent discharge. Not accepting your responsibility as a gun handler and blaming others for your defective skills is the issue.

Stop avoiding responsibility and face up to it.
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You clearly don't understand the situation. Comparing the Glock trigger that was pulled by the user and a gun that can fire while dropped are totally different.
 
I think that the people who designed the P320 were in over their heads, given too little time and were under pressure, SIG Sauer under US leadership (Cohen and such) wanted a striker fired pistol to compete in large police/military contracts NOW. So they used existing hammer-fired designs (P250) that were hastily adapted to a striker fired mode. End result, major safety malfunction... AND I AM SURE SIG KNEW ABOUT IT.

Remember this is a new 21st century production pistol from a MAJOR firearm manufacturer. The standard today is that service pistols DO NOT discharge when dropped from minimal heights. The P320 fails to meet modern expectations and standards, and is reminicent of single action revolvers from over a century ago -must be carried with empty chamber, else if it falls on its butt, it shoots you in the face- Unacceptable.

Of course this is a trend that is seen across all industries: field a prototype as a finished product, let the end users do the beta testing and iron out the bugs THAT ARE NOTICED later to continue sales. It's more cost efficient to conceal safety issues, do a limited recall, flesh out a few lawsuit dollars, than to conduct thorough testing and delay sales. However in this case "iron out the bugs" means having holes in beta tester's bodies.

This is why I advocate nailing SIG to the wall, as well as any other firearm manufacturer that may try to pull a fast one like that. Examples have to be made so such business practices go away. I am not a beta tester/test pilot, stop treating me like one.
 
Blakenzy said:
This is why I advocate nailing SIG to the wall, as well as any other firearm manufacturer that may try to pull a fast one like that. Examples have to be made so such business practices go away. I am not a beta tester/test pilot, stop treating me like one.
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And what about manufacturers like Blaser, whose rifles (R93) have been maiming people for years, with the company refusing any responsibility - but ultimately changing the design without saying anything about it, then stopping production of that model altogether?

At least in SIG's case it's an easy fix, and it's not the core design that is at fault. And... They said "Yes, we have a problem...". Remmy, y'all hear?
 
Kano383 said:
And what about manufacturers like Blaser, whose rifles (R93) have been maiming people for years, with the company refusing any responsibility - but ultimately changing the design without saying anything about it, then stopping production of that model altogether?

At least in SIG's case it's an easy fix, and it's not the core design that is at fault. And... They said "Yes, we have a problem...". Remmy, y'all hear?
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Nail 'em too, as I said. I was not aware of that but thank you for informing me about it. We should compile a s*** list of companies that produce bad products so we are in the know. Public scrutiny is good, and the internet facilitates that.
 
Kano383 said:
And what about manufacturers like Blaser, whose rifles (R93) have been maiming people for years, with the company refusing any responsibility - but ultimately changing the design without saying anything about it, then stopping production of that model altogether?

At least in SIG's case it's an easy fix, and it's not the core design that is at fault. And... They said "Yes, we have a problem...". Remmy, y'all hear?
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I never thought it was a good idea to use others poor behavior to justify someone else's bad behavior.
 
TomJ said:
I never thought it was a good idea to use others poor behavior to justify someone else's bad behavior.
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Not justifying bad behaviour in the least... Pointing out that there are other very serious issues in the industry, but that when a manufacturer instead of fessing up utilizes intimidation, payments, and lawyers to silence people, then the noise abates very quickly.

How many decades did the Remington saga go on? How many people got their faces smashed in and lost an eye because of Blaser?

What I say, in essence, is that people should be glad that in this case the manufacturer cooperates, and that the fix is easy.
 
Tirod said:
As the ongoing hysteria of the "issue" with the P320 is debated over the internet, lets not forget that one significant thing needs to happen to get the gun to discharge: you, the operator of that mechanism, have to fumble it, badly, and make it happen.

It's being ignored in all the debate: what we have here is a major safety issue that is gun owner induced. For all those who choose to put aside their P320's because they no longer trust it, I support your decision. In fact, it's not going far enough. Lock up ALL your guns, because if you are worried about dropping a P320, then the real issue and what is being admitted is that you will drop guns at all.

So, put down the gun safe key, back away from the cabinet, and leave the room. That way nobody will get hurt.
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I'm going to request a little bit of intellectual honesty here:

Whenever Moms Demand action and their ilk cite the danger of dropped guns as being a reason that we should not be allowed to carry, we all respond in unison:
"Bull! Modern pistols won't fire when dropped"

Whenever ANY article is posted to ANY gun forum where someone claims to have had a gun go off when they only "dropped it" we say:
"Bull! Modern pistols won't fire when dropped"
and/or
He must have had his booger hook in the trigger guard.
and/or
He must have tried to catch it.

Now when Sig, one of the most modern and most popular designs out there, proves to be NOT drop safe, you will tell me that there is no problem with the pistol and you expect all guns to behave this way? It simply isn't consistent... or IMO intellectually honest. Lets not talk out of both sides of our mouths here.
 
Kano383 said:
Not justifying bad behaviour in the least... Pointing out that there are other very serious issues in the industry, but that when a manufacturer instead of fessing up utilizes intimidation, payments, and lawyers to silence people, then the noise abates very quickly.

How many decades did the Remington saga go on? How many people got their faces smashed in and lost an eye because of Blaser?

What I say, in essence, is that people should be glad that in this case the manufacturer cooperates, and that the fix is easy.
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I'm not familiar with those cases, and assuming what you're saying is accurate (I have no reason to believe it's not), those manufacturers should be held accountable. Sig dropped the ball with the P320 and pointing to other manufacturers who apparently acted badly does not change that, but based on their announcement today they're doing the right thing. Whether they were planning on doing it all along or are doing it in response to public pressure is information I'm not privy to. My primary concern is that the P320's, including the 3 I own, will be repaired at no cost to the owners and the drop issue will hopefully be resolved.
 
I do not own a Sig P320 and have no immediate plans to buy one but I have read most viewpoints on this on a number of forums and considering how sig has handled things as per today's annnouncement I do believe there was, among some quarters on the internet, a rush to judgment regarding Sig's handling of the situation. Of course Sig carefully filters its phrases through the lens of legalese. Any company in today's world that doesn't do that would be behaving stupidly. There is no doubt this story broke before Sig was ready but the speed with which it has been addressed suggests, to me at least, that they had a fix in the works when the issue was made public prematurely by third parties. I am not faulting the third parties. I am just saying I see no reason to assume the worst of Sig which is what a good number of early posters were doing, in my view.
 
I just completed the P320 Upgrade Registration Form for our two P320s. This is the message from SIG once I registered a pistol to be "upgraded". No big deal.

No further action is required from you at this time.
You will receive an email from SIG SAUER at a later date that will include a prepaid shipping label and instructions to return your P320 pistol and any P320 caliber exchange kits that you have. It may take many weeks for you to receive this next communication, but we won’t forget about you (SIG will not begin the upgrade process for a few weeks as we prepare to make this upgrade). Once your P320 is shipped and received at SIG SAUER, the turnaround time will be approximately 4 – 6 weeks. This lengthy process is due to the high volume of pistols in the marketplace. Transit times may vary depending on your geographic location and receipt of your returned pistol. In the meantime, your SIG SAUER pistol is safe to carry and use as originally configured from the factory.
 
MCMXI said:
I just completed the P320 Upgrade Registration Form for our two P320s. This is the message from SIG once I registered a pistol to be "upgraded". No big deal.

No further action is required from you at this time.
You will receive an email from SIG SAUER at a later date that will include a prepaid shipping label and instructions to return your P320 pistol and any P320 caliber exchange kits that you have. It may take many weeks for you to receive this next communication, but we won’t forget about you (SIG will not begin the upgrade process for a few weeks as we prepare to make this upgrade). Once your P320 is shipped and received at SIG SAUER, the turnaround time will be approximately 4 – 6 weeks. This lengthy process is due to the high volume of pistols in the marketplace. Transit times may vary depending on your geographic location and receipt of your returned pistol. In the meantime, your SIG SAUER pistol is safe to carry and use as originally configured from the factory.
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It's safe to carry, just not safe to drop. So by time you get the mailing label and the "upgrade" it will most likely be 2.5 months.
 
It's safe to carry, just not safe to drop. So by time you get the mailing label and the "upgrade" it will most likely be 2.5 months.
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You're probably right re the time but I went through something similar with an XDs .45 that I bought back in 2013. Unlike the XDs that I sold almost as soon as I got it back, the P320s won't be going anywhere. I have plenty of firearms to carry and shoot while the P320s are being upgraded.
 
The two 320s that I purchased are my first striker fired pistols. To be honest I'm not really a fan of striker fired pistols, not yet anyway. The 320 shoots great but I'd prefer one with the same DA/SA trigger that all my other SIGs have. To me that's the best combat trigger ever invented and probably the safest.
 
MCMXI said:
The two 320s that I purchased are my first striker fired pistols. To be honest I'm not really a fan of striker fired pistols, not yet anyway. The 320 shoots great but I'd prefer one with the same DA/SA trigger that all my other SIGs have. To me that's the best combat trigger ever invented and probably the safest.
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I have recently come around to the DA/SA trigger (specifically the Sig 229 and 245). I still can't get my first shot as consistent as my Glocks or 1911s, but the Sigs point shoot better than anything else I shoot.
 
I'll carry my RAP while I wait, but it doesnt compare to the SIG in terms of shootablity and accuracy in my hands. It's a great pistol, but I'm anxious to get my SIG upgraded.
 
No further action is required from you at this time.
You will receive an email from SIG SAUER at a later date that will include a prepaid shipping label and instructions to return your P320 pistol and any P320 caliber exchange kits that you have. It may take many weeks for you to receive this next communication, but we won’t forget about you (SIG will not begin the upgrade process for a few weeks as we prepare to make this upgrade). Once your P320 is shipped and received at SIG SAUER, the turnaround time will be approximately 4 – 6 weeks. This lengthy process is due to the high volume of pistols in the marketplace. Transit times may vary depending on your geographic location and receipt of your returned pistol. In the meantime, your SIG SAUER pistol is safe to carry and use as originally configured from the factory.
It's safe to carry, just not safe to drop. So by time you get the mailing label and the "upgrade" it will most likely be 2.5 months.
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I wouldn't be surprised if they "stage" the sending of return labels so they can keep the rate of return in line with the rate of repair. I'm in the queue, I'll continue to shoot my p320 at the steel plates, I'll just make sure no one else is in the cell or behind me while doing so. There are limits to our current "instant gratification" society.

The bit about the caliber exchange kits throws me a little, I guess part of the fix must also be in the slide (striker).
 
Very cool! I knew I was waiting for something on the P320... hopefully by the time the M17 civy version is out, it'll all be a distant memory. I'd like one.
 
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