JohnBiltz
Member
We don't know that. What we do know is Sig did a modification to the contract at no cost to the government and those modifications were drop safe. Those mods fixed the problem. From a post above having a safety does not matter.
The P320: your gun handling skills are the problem
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tipoc
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Here is a bit more on Sigs response and the original issues from Soldier Systems...
http://soldiersystems.net/2017/08/0...-unaffected-announces-voluntary-p320-upgrade/
As the Truth About Guns pointed out:
"As we posted earlier, SIG announced a voluntary upgrade program for P320 owners. The Army’s M17 pistols, which came out of the Modular Handgun System trials, already have these upgrades and SIG reiterated that they were always planning to roll them out in the commercial P320s soon as well."
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/08/jeremy-s/mechanics-behind-sig-p320-drop-safety-failures/
http://soldiersystems.net/2017/08/0...-unaffected-announces-voluntary-p320-upgrade/
As the Truth About Guns pointed out:
"As we posted earlier, SIG announced a voluntary upgrade program for P320 owners. The Army’s M17 pistols, which came out of the Modular Handgun System trials, already have these upgrades and SIG reiterated that they were always planning to roll them out in the commercial P320s soon as well."
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/08/jeremy-s/mechanics-behind-sig-p320-drop-safety-failures/
tipoc
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That would be the U.S. Army, and a few other armies as well. This information was pointed out by Sig, as to who did the testing in a broad.sense.
It's also been pointed out that the gun had to be dropped at a 30 degree angle so that it hit the upper rear of the slide. No one tested for that particular angle and so no issue was found there. But like it's been said the military version already had the upgrade in them that prevents a discharge even from the 30 degree angle.
You have to work your way through the hysteria sometime.
or choose another of many modern striker fired pistols that will not discharge when dropped, tossed or even forcefully thrown.
From muzzle-down drops? Not completely. They have a floating/inertial firing pin, and if the fall is far/fast enough and the landing deceleration is hard/quick enough, the FP can overcome the resistance of the FP spring to impact the primer. Whether that will set the cartridge off depends on the primer hardness, in part, which is one reason that people reloading for AR's are advised to use harder primers (like CCI 41's); same re: slamfires.
That's quite a bit different than a muzzle-up discharge, particularly a discharge where either the trigger "pulls itself" or where the striker is jarred off the sear and delivers the same hit to the primer that it does when intentionally fired.... that should pop the primer approximately 100% of the time.
An AD/ND into the ground isn't good. An AD/ND into the air at an upward angle is worse. They aren't the same.
tipoc
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The Keefe Report from American Rifleman always makes interesting reading. It's comments regarding the "Sharknado" unleashed by the P320 drop test are worth reading and they set a few things straight and caution against melodrama.
"One of the most disturbing aspects of the P320 Sharknado was that websites and individuals immediately made the leap to the XM17 and XM18 currently being tested as the Modular Handgun Systems. Some even went so far as to suggest that SIG Sauer was jeopardizing the lives of U.S. Army soldiers. According to SIG Sauer, the situation that occurred on the videos were not replicated on the XM17—which also has an ambidextrous manual safety—and a different sear, striker and trigger than the commercial P320. They tried."
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/8/9/the-keefe-report-the-sig-sauer-p320-sharknado/
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/8/15/the-keefe-report-dispersing-the-p320-sharknado/
"One of the most disturbing aspects of the P320 Sharknado was that websites and individuals immediately made the leap to the XM17 and XM18 currently being tested as the Modular Handgun Systems. Some even went so far as to suggest that SIG Sauer was jeopardizing the lives of U.S. Army soldiers. According to SIG Sauer, the situation that occurred on the videos were not replicated on the XM17—which also has an ambidextrous manual safety—and a different sear, striker and trigger than the commercial P320. They tried."
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/8/9/the-keefe-report-the-sig-sauer-p320-sharknado/
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/8/15/the-keefe-report-dispersing-the-p320-sharknado/
The drop test issue has nothing to do with the military contract. Those who tried to conflate those two issue were confused or being disingenuous.
The drop test issue has nothing to do with the military contract. Those who try to say the drop test issues are non-issues because the military guns don't have the issue are confused or being disingenuous.
This isn't about whether one is "for" or "against" Sig. Or it shouldn't be, anyway.
The drop test issue has nothing to do with the military contract. Those who try to say the drop test issues are non-issues because the military guns don't have the issue are confused or being disingenuous.
This isn't about whether one is "for" or "against" Sig. Or it shouldn't be, anyway.
I am one who is "for" sig. All the sig pistols I own or have owned in the past have all been 100% reliable and easy to shoot accurately, except for that crap gun called the mosquito which I've heard wasn't even made by Sig (Umarex?). Sig is amongst my top 3 or 4 favorite gun makers and we all have to admit they made a mistake with the p320 design and it warrants a upgrade. If you think it's okay to have a gun on the market that is easily made to fire by dropping it from these distances and such you are being a sig fanboy and not accepting the flaws of this manufacturer. All manufacturers have had flaws along the line somewhere, a gun that's not drop safe is a pretty big one though. I shoot my p320c consistently better than any other gun I own most range trips and even beats out my ppq's/cz75 most of the time as of lately. But unfortunately I will not be shooting it anymore until the upgrade is completed.
ClickClickD'oh
Member
The DHS guns don't have the thumb safety.
JohnBiltz
Member
They aren't. Several people were shot during Desert Shield loading and unloading trucks. Neither are most shotguns. Ever wonder why you should unload a shotgun while climbing over a fence when hunting, that's why.
Zerodefect
member
Not sure why this thread is just about "drop safety"? You can test this by hitting the rear of the slide with a small hammer. And it fails.
My 1911 is on my right hip at 3-4 oclock. Guess what else is near there? Door frames, countertops, circus clowns, kids with pointy foreheads, horse hoofs, stair rails, power transformers, tool boxes, truck tail gates, etc. (all things I've slammed my pistol into over the years)
All kinds of things that will hit that pistol with much more force when a 260 pound, 6'3" man walks into them at full speed.
There is no excuse for Sigs drop test failures. 1911's weren't too safe for many years, but that's been pretty much mitigated with lightweight firing pins or 80 series safeties. And the olde 1911 lack of safety isn't an excuse for the modern pistols failures.
My 1911 is on my right hip at 3-4 oclock. Guess what else is near there? Door frames, countertops, circus clowns, kids with pointy foreheads, horse hoofs, stair rails, power transformers, tool boxes, truck tail gates, etc. (all things I've slammed my pistol into over the years)
All kinds of things that will hit that pistol with much more force when a 260 pound, 6'3" man walks into them at full speed.
There is no excuse for Sigs drop test failures. 1911's weren't too safe for many years, but that's been pretty much mitigated with lightweight firing pins or 80 series safeties. And the olde 1911 lack of safety isn't an excuse for the modern pistols failures.
Is this something you've experienced or something you've surmised/believe/imagined...or were you referring to a pistol other than the SIG 320?
I ask because this has been tried by several folks, to show how unsafe the SIG 320 is, and it hasn't worked out quite that way. The reason is that there is a FP/(S)triker block which needs to be pushed upward to allow the FP/S to reach the primer
Zerodefect
member
Yep. I don't know how you can mess up a gun with a FP safety. Worse case scenario, dead trigger, not boom.
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Sig's returning the recalled units. New trigger is pretty bad.
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Sig's returning the recalled units. New trigger is pretty bad.
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Well, if you drop it at "just the right angle"
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