The Patrol Rifle Concept

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I'll agree that if the officer is comfortable with a revolver, it's not a terrible or obsolete choice. It might even be more practical if he's more likely to run into a wounded bear on the highway than he is to confront a masked gunman at the local Piggly Wiggly. But for the most part, why not carry the high capacity handgun? I can't see a situation where having a quick reload of 15 or more rounds would ever be a bad thing.
But that is a different debate...

As for the rifle, the .357 is nothing to scoff at out of a handgun and it's even more impressive out of a rifle. On paper you don't give up much and it does hold more ammo. Penetration may be less than from a handgun because you'd be driving bullets designed to do their work out of a 6" revolver a few hundred FPS faster from your carbine. That could be good for limiting overpenetration dangers and would probably increase lethality - kind of like a bigger, heavier M193 projectile.

But I still don't think the .357 is as close as it's ballistics would indicate, at least not in some respects. The 30-30 would have an edge against body armor or any cover that you found your bad guy hiding behind. It's not a magic laser death ray either - I've seen fairly small trees deflect or stop rounds from the 30-30 and many more powerful rounds. But I've also seen them shoot through things that have stopped .357 rounds dead in their tracks. I'd rather have some chance of penetrating cover than no chance at all.
Another thing is still the cost - 30-30 Marlin lever actions are still available in good used shape for $250. They're not an AR but they also aren't going to cost you $1K.
A .357 Marlin lever action is a sweet little rifle, but I've never seen one for sale used and the new ones are somewhere over $400. For the extra cost, what do you gain? Is it worth it?
A 30-30 would probably also add another 50-100 yards of effective range. You might not need or want that, but if you did it is a better choice.
The 30-30 is also a better choice if you have to deal with the possibility of finishing off any wounded animal larger or meaner than a deer. If I had to go try to put down an injured 300 pound black bear, I'd want the 30-30 over a .357.

The truth is that we get into the debates about what's best, but we're all very ethnocentric about our choices. Here in the NE a rifle that will do 200 yards against man or beast should cover anything that you wouldn't need a SWAT team for.
Maybe in the South the range would be shorter - why not go with a cartridge like the .357 that would likely allow faster follow up shots and reduce the danger of overpenetration?

Like anything else, our personal choices will depend to a large extent on our locations and backgrounds.
 
for the most part, why not carry the high capacity handgun? I can't see a situation where having a quick reload of 15 or more rounds would ever be a bad thing.
But that is a different debate...

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just that it's probably received too much emphasis, i.e. excessive expectations of what you can really do with a small sidearm, with 5 rounds or 500.

WRT the masked gunman at the PW, that's what I meant when I said that, if there's a small war going on, a good carbine, and effective training with a carbine, would be a much better choice.:)

A handgun is a defensive weapon. When an officer needs to go on the offensive, as in stopping a masked gunman and rescuing hostages, etc., it's not a great choice.
 
Another neat patol rifle would be something like a short barreled Saiga in 7.62x39. With softpoints it is close to a 30-30 already; with specially loaded AP rounds would defeat most body armor that might be encountered - not to mention punch through a lot of automobile etc.

I still think a handy scoped bolt bolt action - perhaps a Steyr Scout - would be best, since when being first on the scene with some school shooter or bank robbery the element of precision might make for a decisive first shot on at least one BG, perhaps more.
 
Wow, I read 229 entries, and most of them were passionate debates about the AR15. Oddly enough, the thing that came to mind when I read the original post was John Wooters' little "woodswalking rifle". If I'm remembering rightly, it was a .25-caliber wildcat, done up Mannlicher stock style on a little Sako Vixen action.

Without commenting in any way or the other about the AR15, I think there is a whole class of "just enough" rifles floating around out there. I don't think they qualify as battle rifles, and under modern conditions (and given previous posts in this Zombie Which Walks The Earth thread) I suppose they wouldn't qualify as police rifles either.

Maybe the idea of a "Boy Scout" or a "Girl Scout" rifle would seem, well, too boyish or girlish, but I think it gets the concept across to people familiar with Jeff Cooper.

Sometimes, "ultimate efficiency" isn't the only criterion for determining our picks. Sometimes, particularly in the civilian world, we can pick something because we like it, or for historical reasons. I know, for example, purely from range visits that people react differently to a Kalashnikov than they do to a Marlin.

My personal choice (so far) is a Marlin 1894C in .357 Magnum. It's got a peep sight and the factory front bead, which ought to have been replaced, but oh well.

What I would really love would be a M1 Carbine in something like the 9x23mm (or .38 Super, except for the nagging, niggling semi-rim). I think that would give me the giggles.

No, it wouldn't be AS GOOD A CHOICE as an AR15 platform, but dang it'd be cool.
 
Bumpity bump.

Oh, I'm sorry,
did I wake a sleeping thread? :evil:

What about lever guns for patrol rifles?

Reload on the go through the gate.
Fast action, quick pointing.
Available in the .30's,
including .357 mag.

Out of a carbine,
canned lightning.
Bigga bada boom.
 
Kibbles and Bits

Well, let's see.... from what I recall, the Spanish Police found the Destroyer to be handy for officers that can't handle a handgun well and for prison guards who really don't need an assault rifle. Sounds a little like the M1 Carbine, huh? :scrutiny:

I rather like my Marlin Camp 9 and Camp 45. They're a little heavier than they'd have to be, but a "patrol rifle" shouldn't be confused with an "assault rifle" so there you go. I'm not sure a patrol rifle would need to be a .308 or something that would be a hazard in an urban environment where an errant bullet could go God knows where. :what:

I agree Remington has blown the niche with wrong minded pricing. I'm surprised a bit that the Russians, with really decent manufacturing facilities and cheaper labor, haven't figured this out and offered something that would fit the bill at about $300 or so, a price that would blow the other contenders out of the picture entirely. Wouldn't it be cool to see them come out with something in 9x39 for us?:D
 
Don't know if anyone mentioned this, I am definitely not going to read 10 pages of AR rant, but I would consider a rifled 12 gauge with some kind of optics as a legitimate patrol rifle. Or maybe I just spend too much time on the shotgun section of THR =)
 
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