The Police And You

[boomer1911a1]

After sampling dozens upon dozens of threads in the section, my curiosity has been piqued in this regard.

Are we a bunch of borderline survivalist/separatist/isolationist extremists, waiting with gritted teeth for The Man to push us over the edge into social chaos and violent backlash against our near-fascist State, with concentration camps for the weak/defeated and Road Warrior-like nomadic desperation for the strong...?

Or are we a group of idylic Good Americans straight out of Norman Rockwell, where every policeman is our friend, protecting and serving with honor and courtesy?

This oughta be good...

 

[Zero_DgZ]

The answer is C, none of the above. Well, part of the answer is D, all of the above.

But let's look at it this way: As law abiding citizens, all/most of us, we dearly want the police to be our friends but unfortunately the steady downhill spiral of the last couple of decades has certainly proven that they cannot be.

 

[psyopspec]

That's it? We're either on the edge of revolution or completely naive? That doesn't leave much in the way of middle ground, which would be more representative of reality. Given the two questions you present, I have little comment other than the suggestion that you be careful about what you believe from THR cop threads, and not take it as representative of the population as a whole.

Edit: Poll added, voted for the "few bad apples option," though I can't see this thread bringing anything new to the table on the LEO discussion, or remaining open beyond 5pm CST today.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

lol

nicely worded choices though!

 

[cbsbyte]

You tell me what has happen. Since the Police are now called Law Enforcement Officers. Their job has changed from just Policing the streets, to now enforcing the laws of the land. Its seem to me that they now have much more power than they did two decades ago.

 

[boomer1911a1]

Realize that in my post I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek in giving what I consider to be the extreme choices... I was hoping the poll options would allow a lot more flexibilty as far as middle-ground.

Thanks!

 

[mljdeckard]

I had this discussion with a guy in my guard unit who is in the UHP, he pretty much agrees with me.

Being a cop is a lousy job. The more I learn about it, the more suspicious I am of anyone who would want to do it. Lousy pay, lousy hours, and the daily potential to make split second life and death decisions which will later be scrutinized by people who wouldn't hang it on the line themselves. Nobody likes you. The only time people interact with a cop is when they are in trouble or when they are the victim of something. Plenty of guys become cops because A: They got bullied in high school and want to carry a gun, or B: They were the ones doing the bullying.

I tend to trust older cops more. If you have survived ten years on the job, this means you have learned it is actually work, and you want to do it anyway, and you have managed to stay out of trouble for a while. I'm 33, and I cringe when I walk past a cop younger than me.

 

[ArmedBear]

There's another factor.

Do you become a cop in a place where, mostly, you'll be helping to protect people from criminals, catch real criminals like murderers, thieves and rapists, and helping people on the highway?

Or do you become a cop in a place where you will spend your time busting people for things that shouldn't even be crimes?

I have little doubt that a libertarian-leaning person can become a cop, say, in rural Montana, but I don't think that he/she could, in good conscience, become a cop where I live. If he/she actually ENJOYS enforcing some of the laws here, the person is either a die-hard statist, or a sociopathic bully.

I've liked the older cops here because I've met both young and old. It seems that the older cops joined the force when the laws were different, and it shows.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i'd like to see

same polll done by guys in law enforcement see how they self evaluate

 

[Sindawe]

I'm on the fence. I've encountered both good loyal Peace Officers, and I've encountered JBT-esq LEOs in my life. Equal portions of both, but admittedly my interactions with the police have been few and far between the my sample size is too small to make any reasonable conclusion.

So I treat cops like I treat wasps. Do my best to not draw their attention and leave them to their own affairs.

 

[DontBurnMyFlag]

I'll self evaluate myself. 99% of the cops I have met or worked with are great guys. In my department there is not one person I would not trust with my family's life. Other departments...well thats another story.

Theres a few bad apples in every organization, agency, job, career or field out there. To lump them all as mercs or criminals is the same as saying "all gun owners are bloodthirsty killers" or "all militiamen are racist anti-govt crazies."

There is research that can support both of those claims. HOWEVER, we know that a generalization like those above are both false and stereotypical.

We need the police, regardless of what people think. Sure, we can defend ourselves with our firearms, and fight criminals etc. But whos gonna check the bump in the night at the old ladies house, give the homeless guy a ride, and perform the hundreds of menial tasks that a police officer does everyday? Surely our guns will solve the problem

Being realistic is the key people. And I have only met one cop that doesnt like guns or peoples ability to own them. On the contrary a Sgt. I know spent 30 minutes talking to me about the FN 5-7. So both extremes are represented.

 

[McCall911]

Well, I worked with police for 27 years and came to realize one thing: They're just people too! So whatever you say about police, you can also say about the rest of society, as well as yourself.
And I chose #2. Most good, a few bad apples.

Which one am I? Um...I plead the 5th!

 

[ArmedBear]

Don'tBurn-

Interesting.

Here, a lot of these menial tasks are simply not done, at least by the city PD's.

The agency that does the most to just promote safety and help people out, here, is the CHP, and there is a different "vibe" about the CHP vs. the city PD. Different people seem to want to join, or interview well.

I don't even mind getting a ticket from a CHP cop (it's been 20 years since I did). Totally different vibe, as I said.

They're just people too! So whatever you say about police, you can also say about the rest of society, as well as yourself.

That's quite true, on both sides of the coin.

 

[pacodelahoya]

They volunteer to enforce unconstitutional laws for pay period. When I was younger, I was all for law and order. As I have aged, I have taken the Red White and Blue sunglasses off and the oppression is hurting my eyes.



The sad thing is, I'm sure most LEO think they are doing the right thing and just don't understand the boundaries placed on them by the constitution.

 

[up_onus]

I think what you are reading about "suvivalists" and nomadic wandering tribes is a far cry from who most people are. You read these subjects because it is not discussed in a normal day to day manner with co-workers, family, or friends. People come here to discuss their wants and woes in a format that is conducive to like minded people.

Regarding this police issue. In my humble opinion, police arent bad people as a whole. They have a job to do, with bosses, career goals and paychecks just like the majority of America. People do not always know the laws (besides the super obvious) and get defensive about things that they do not know about...This is natural and has been shown the case throughout mankinds history. Take what you read on THR as a sample of reality, not as the majority.

 

[High Planes Drifter]

I live in the New Orleans metropolitan area. You can imagine the overall oppinion of our local law enforcement agencies, and our local government for that matter. Orleans parish and pretty much all surrounding areas (Jefferson, St. Bernard, St. Tammany, St. John) are plagued with corruption of public officials and law enforcement officers, abuse of power, etc. Its sickening.

There's 2 things you'll never straighten out; a lightning bolt, and Louisiana politics(including Law enforcement).

 

[Old Dog]

mljdeckard proclaimed:

Plenty of guys become cops because A: They got bullied in high school and want to carry a gun, or B: They were the ones doing the bullying.

This is such crap I just can't let it go by ... None of the cops I know, or have ever worked with, went into law enforcement for those reasons. Nor did I.

The question was about THR members and how they (we) feel about the police, not someone's misguided idea of why people enter the profession.

The sad thing is, I'm sure most LEO think they are doing the right thing and just don't understand the boundaries placed on them by the constitution.

More crap.

I'm quite sure "most LEO" have a far better understanding of the boundaries placed on them by the Constitution (note the capital "C") than many posters here. Notwithstanding those examples of bad policing, bad law enforcement policies, bad laws and law enforcement personnel who are corrupt (yes, it does happen too often), let's be clear on one thing: when one has to appear before a judge to justify one's daily decision-making -- something I very much doubt this poster ever has to do -- one has a very good idea of what citizens' Constitutional and civil rights are ...

 

[ApexinM3]

I feel the vast majority of cops are stand-up noble guys. Unfortunately we don't hear about it, therfore those good guys are cast in the same bad light that the very few bad ones bring on. I've always have & always will continue to hold cops in high esteem, and treat them with respect, even if a few may not deserve it.

And, no, I am not a cop.

Sadly, a lot of the crap laws these guys are having to enforce were created by corrupt politicians. It'd be like holding troops responsible for bad orders. Oh wait, that already is happening now. :banghead:

 

[boomer1911a1]

Nicely put, O.Dog! And thank you for clarifying the point of my poll. I wasn't trying to compell a crowd of LEOs on this forum to leap to its feet in order to defend itself. I think each officer can personally acquit him/herself on a post-by-post, individual-by-individual basis... but shouldn't feel the need to here.

What I was looking for was more of a general gist of the political leanings of this group. Obviously, we're pretty diverse. Obviously we tend toward the right... but there's lots of wiggle room. How far do we range? Where does simple, honest, social conservatism begin to bleed over into the Right Wing Lunatic Fringe?

Are there more THR members like me? Or are most closer to Bill O'Reilly? Or Rush Limbaugh?

 

[ArmedBear]

Actually, a lot of people here tend towards the libertarian end of things, not the "right" that favors government control. That means that most of us favor being left the hell alone unless absolutely necessary, regardless of whether we might argue that a certain "right" or "left" issue is closer to the "leave me the hell alone" pole.

Hippies, survivalists, real estate investors, atheists, Christians, strip club owners, and a good number of externally-nondescript middle-class Americans ALL want to be "left the hell alone," by and large.

Right-left is a false dichotomy, not because these two sides don't exist, but because there are other parts of the spectrum.

 

[mbt2001]

The SYSTEM is the one against you. For instance, whenever you deal with the police they are looking at you NOT as a harried commuter getting home, but a possible perp. It isn't their fault, but they are the ones doing it.

There was a time when the police protected society from criminals... The way the system is now, the police are making criminals out of society.

That doesn't mean that I hate them, but I don't trust them, which is the way it should be. WE shouldn't trust the government. So a lot more good will come of this evetually than most folks think. If you don't trust the police, that will eventually spill over into not trusting government and then we are no different than the ones who founded this nation.

 

[Sniper X]

I think the original question is a little over the top but I don;t see it being that far fetched especially if things get worse. I do see more of a trend in the cops getting more and more defensive and less communicative as they get more and more well armed. It seems the better they are armed and trained in the use of these arms, the more un-freindly and overly macho and easier it is to get them all flamed up over nothing. I sum it up like this. You use to be able to talk to a cop weither it be durring a traffic stop, or a casual chat on the street. Now if you say anything to a cop in either instance other than answering a question, you are treated as a criminal.

Plus, if you just try to start idle chat with a cop they get all defensive. Use to be very different.

 

[pacodelahoya]

Old Dog,

Don't want to get in a whizzin contest with you, just so you know, I've been on the non civilian side of the Blue Line, and from my experience, I have seen firsthand the outright disdain if not hostility that a lot of Leo have for citizens.

Sorry about not capitalizing the c in Constitution, unintentional I promise.

As far as being in court, yeah, I did my time in a closley related field where I was on video as long as I was at work and the demographic of the "clientele" assured I spent my share of time in "Da Mans" office as well as a trip or two to District Court.

P.M. if you want particulars

 

[ArmedBear]

Oh, and by the way, you left out an option:

"Cops are people with jobs, just like anyone else with a job. They get a paycheck, and around here at least, they are union members and they get excellent pensions. By and large they do the job they're told to do. Some cheat, just like everywhere. Some are true heroes and do things that are really 'above and beyond' now and again."

 

[Old Dog]

The way the system is now, the police are making criminals out of society.

Oh, for gosh sakes. Please tell us that you really don't believe this! And here I thought most members of THR believed in the concept of personal accountability.

No one -- but the criminals themselves -- are making criminals out of society.

Police officers enforce the laws the legislatures make. YOU elect those legislators. Most cops would rather have fewer laws to enforce, not more.

Let's have a reality check. These broad statements don't really say anything, other than to display prejudice.