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The Police And You

Discussion in 'Legal' started by boomer1911a1, Jan 18, 2007.

?

Your view of The Police

Poll closed Feb 1, 2007.
  1. The vast majority of LEOs are brave/honorable and deserve our repect

    47 vote(s)
    13.4%
  2. Most cops are stand-up guys with a few bad apples spoling the barrel

    203 vote(s)
    58.0%
  3. Can't decide; I'm on the fence

    34 vote(s)
    9.7%
  4. Most cops are corrupt mercenaries, with a noble few doing right

    57 vote(s)
    16.3%
  5. Almost ALL cops are crooks and should disarmed and prosecuted

    9 vote(s)
    2.6%
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  1. cropcirclewalker

    cropcirclewalker member

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    It is my sad duty to report.........As much as we loved him........Officer Friendly has gone MIA in the WOD.

    Sorry.
     
  2. Zero_DgZ

    Zero_DgZ Member

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    Interspersed double post?
     
  3. mbt2001

    mbt2001 Member

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    Yeah, so that is why I need a lawyer when dealing with the police / .gov on virtually any issue... Or why those Duke kids need lawyers and the press and barely got out of that situation...

    Personal accountability is a myth pal. Right now, some 12 or 22 year old could say you "touched" her and it is off to jail for you even if you didn't do anything at all...

    A cop can pull you over and arrest you for DUI WHETHER OR NOT you have had something to drink...

    Break into "the wrong house" serving a warrant and shoot your dog, tear gas your bed room and you sit in jail while they sort out the "regrettable error"...

    Show me WHERE THE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS IN THAT???

    This whole personal responsibility crap is what is getting us deeper and deeper into the nightmare that we are living…
     
  4. Zero_DgZ

    Zero_DgZ Member

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    Old Dog: Wrong.

    We elect these legislators, who lie to us on the campaign trail and then run amok in DC or the state seat with their own personal agendas primarily designed to A) get them re-elected, and B) make them money.

    These legislators then pressure the police to lie to us, abuse us, and otherwise to unpleasant/unconstitutional things because it makes said legislators look good, which goes back to points A and B.

    If we controlled what the legislators did every bill would be passed by the populace refferendum style, not the two year accountability-free ticket politicians are given today.

    Our representative system is broken and being abused, and was penned when such things as instant communication were impossible.
     
  5. CannibalCrowley

    CannibalCrowley Member

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    I said that most are corrupt simply because far too many LEOs witness corruption and do nothing about it, therefore making themselves corrupt as well.
     
  6. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    I've known some good cops. Been related to some. The important factor is that I KNEW these people.

    The simple fact is, that in today's America there's simply no upside to my trusting every cop with whom I am forced to interact, nor any downside to my mistrusting them implicitly. Believing that every policeman I meet has my best interests (or the sanctity of the law and Constitution) at heart is every bit as foolish as believing that every dog I meet is friendly and won't bite me. Both assumptions are idiotic and could potentially cost a person their life or limb, much less their freedom.

    I avoid contact with the police whenever possible. On those rare occasions when I do need to interact with them, I know to keep my mouth shut in all instances where I am not EXPLICITLY required to speak by LAW. At the same time, I avoid people who would CAUSE me to interact with the police. I don't use drugs. I don't hang out with people who do. I don't buy things from people who steal. I don't go to places where such people congregate. In short, I avoid police AND criminals.
     
  7. Manedwolf

    Manedwolf member

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    It might be an aspect of training now, I don't know, but it seems like many cops are less inclined to view themselves as citizens helping their fellow citizens, and more like special people with special powers who can tell citizens what to do.
     
  8. Beagle-zebub

    Beagle-zebub Member

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    The great majority of American police follow the law to the letter. The problem isn't corruption, but obedience to evil laws. The War on Drugs? The Lautenberg amendment? There's nothing corrupt about enforcing laws that are evil--it's just evil.

    Do you assume that the only kind of tyrannical law enforcement is the corrupt kind? There wasn't nearly as much corruption under the Taliban as there presently is in Afghanistan. The ATF isn't typically "corrupt" in the typical sense of the word. Was Pol Pot corrupt?
     
  9. Jack T.

    Jack T. Member

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    Location:
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    On an intellectual level, I know most cops are good, *honorable* people.

    But I tend to view law enforcement in the same light law enforcement views the public: assume they are out to get you, be pleasantly surprised when you are wrong.
     
  10. ForeverArmed

    ForeverArmed member

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    The profession of policing could be very honorable if its sole purpose was the defense of peoples' rights. That would involve going after people who harm the innocent: murderers, rapists, robbers, burglars, etc., and arresting them using the minimum force possible. And there are some cops who do see it that way. I have no problem with them and have even met a couple.

    Alas, everything I see (even on "cop worship" shows like Cops and World's Wildest Police Chases) tells me that the good ones are in the minority. Most seem to be authoritarian control freaks, bullies, and thugs who become enraged when they aren't obeyed like gods. No one is safe from an angry cop, and most cops like it that way, because they enjoy being feared. To them, respect is a one-way street.

    Also, the willing enforcement of unconstitutional laws is inexcusable. I'm not saying that every cop should have the legal expertise of a Harvard Law Professor, but some laws are blatantly unconstitutional. Any child can understand the words "shall not be infringed." And regardless of what the law says, how can any person with a conscience lock a person up when that person has harmed no one? That happens due to the insane "War on Drugs" all the time, just as it used to happen during the first Prohibition.

    My attitude toward policing is this: Anything that an ordinary citizen doesn't have the right to do, a cop doesn't have the right to do either. So if I see someone snorting coke or hiring a hooker, it's none of my damn business. But if I see someone raping a woman, I have a right to intervene and stop him. That's the way it should be with cops, only they would have the additional authority to take people to jail to await trial.

    So, to any cops reading this: Please do the right thing and be an ally of the Constitution. You're in a unique position to aid freedom in this nation. Just because a law is on the books doesn't make it right, and this very nation was FOUNDED by lawbreakers! Don't be a willing servant of the politicians who are using you to enforce their agenda. Ignore victimless crimes. Be friends with the citizens you live and work among, and give respect just as you receive it. Don't bully people while hiding behind your badge. If you follow this advice and encourage your fellow officers to do the same, then peoples' view of law enforcement will brighten considerably.
     
  11. pacodelahoya

    pacodelahoya Member

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    Forever Armed,

    That is exactly the point I was trying to make and didn't.

    Enforcing blatantly unconstitutional laws because they are "The Law"
    is wrong.:fire:
     
  12. CornCod

    CornCod Member

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    I clicked the "On the fence" category. I would say that most cops are not "Stand-up guys" but perhaps "fairly decent guys" fully cognizant that we live in a world rather messed up with the effects of original sin. I don't even consider myself a "stand-up guy." Heck, even St. Paul called himself "chief of all sinners," can I do no less?
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2007
  13. Troutman

    Troutman member

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    Location:
    Gods' Country, Texas
    Police have changed. Using just one word to describe it would be "attitude". That also for criminals as well.
    Take what's happening in San Francisco’s', law enforcement.
    Criminals’ in prisons can now learn to become a Philadelphian lawyer, better than what we have on the other side (the state).
    At times, one has to use evil (or I should use the term "to be shrewd") to fight evil….. Screw, “political correctness”…… Remember, one time ago, when one “leaned” on a guy to get information from him. Today, you have to give him a steak dinner (playing footsy’ with him) and get very little to nothin' in return.
    The world is coming to an end.
     
  14. mpmarty

    mpmarty Member

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    It is interesting

    to observe the opinions of members of this group as it applies to LEOs and their respective geographic locations. I lived in Tampa Florida for a couple of miserable years. The cops there were belligerant, ignorant, agressive and usually totally unsupported by the general public; this was in 1985 and 1986. Prior to that time, I was in Oregon and Nevada for most of my civilian life and the LEOs there were great people in most cases, calm, efficient, intelligent and inclined to elicit cooperation from the citizens. I was NOT in law enforcement. I met and interacted with many deputies, police officers and highway patrolmen and was alway given courteous treatment and never bullied in any way.
     
  15. Sniper X

    Sniper X Member

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    New Mexico
    MP, I beleive that the attitude of the LEOs gets worse the closer they are to the "drug cities" because I also happen to beleive that drugs and druggies are the main thing jadeing the cops view of normalcy.
     
  16. Troutman

    Troutman member

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    Location:
    Gods' Country, Texas
    My 2nd post add-on

    I'm not talking about dealing with routine stops. I'm talking severe crimes, involving homicide. Serve crimes involving, children, senior citizens, and the helpless.
    Dealing with traffic is crap. But, a part of the course.
    In today’s world, their are/were (no doubt) innocent people put in prison. Through DNA testing proved them to be innocent. There is always going to be that, when DNA is not available. Prosecutors’, juries can be wrong! And that can go both ways, proving innocence, and are guilty. Crazy……As the old saying goes….”The System”, is not perfect…..but that’s the best we have, “Blind Justice”, that does not mean that we put real blind-folds on when we look to really see the facts for what they are, and what their (facts) telling us.
     
  17. DontBurnMyFlag

    DontBurnMyFlag Member

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    Try dealing with the dregs of society every day and you'll see how quick your attitude changes. A random person walking up to you on the street and saying "hi" doesnt register as a random friendly citizen at first. Because, this aint the 1950's, alot of people dont do that anymore. Once someone reassures me that they are not a threat/set up, I have a large smile on my face and Im shaking their hand.

    But for the full time officers I know, they have to deal with drug dealers, prostitutes and every other offender everyday. Its hard to smile about all that. They have to maintain a rough exterior or the streets will take advantage of them.

    Every single cop I know while off duty is smiling laughing, watching tv, playing sports, shooting guns lol, doing all sorts of normal activities with no attitude and no tough guy exterior.

    Theres a difference between on and off duty. It just so happens the majority of America only witnesses the on duty LEO's.
     
  18. razorburn

    razorburn member

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    What if you think they're just normal guys? No more noble or evil than my accountant, barber, fast food worker or anyone else? There are some very heroic people who happen to be cops, as well as some heinously twisted people who also happen to be cops. We had a heroic cop out here stop a rape in progress. We also had a cop in our town who turned out to be a child molestor. I don't see a cop as being any more likely to be good or bad than any stranger I see off the street.
     
  19. noops

    noops Member

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    mpmarty,

    Very good post, and I didn't even think about it before I voted. I voted "mostly good, some bad apples." Upon further reflection though, there is some real changes in how I'd vote based on where I am. I grew up in and around Boston. Almost every experience was a bad one, even including harassment and assault on me by a cop. Now I live in Oregon. Since I got here, every experience has been a good one. It obviously helped change my views. I'm not sure what to say, except anecdotally, I think you're spot on.

    Maybe big city cops become jaded because of the overwhelming crime, pettiness, hate, filth, anger, angst, stupidity. Hell, I became jaded, and I saw a lot less of it than the cops do. Now I live in an Oregon city of about 50,000 where a lot of people are down to earth, optimistic, semi-rural people. I think these environmental differences can't help but make a difference.

    I'll give you a good point/counterpoint:

    1) I remember standing right near the Government Center (where there is often a significant police presence) in Boston when a guy walked up to a bike rack with a pair of cutters, cut about 5 locks, picked up the bikes, and walked away. We all just looked at him like, "huh, that's interesting." A few people even chuckled. Certainly noone called for police.

    2) In Oregon, I gave my wife a really nice Klein mountain bike, and it got stolen. Being the jaded city punk that I am, I told my wife, "Well, you'll never see that sucker again." Of course, two days later a really nice female cop calls my wife and says, "We found your bike in some meth-head's bathtub, come and identify it." (don't know about the bathtub thing) So, being jaded still, I say, "Well, we'll get a frame out of it at least." Waddya know, we got the bike back in one complete piece. I was astonished. More importantly, the cops were nice and polite almost to the point of being effusive. I mean, they we're honestly happy to get my wife's bike back. Even if the Boston cops had gotten it back, we'd be processed like so much meat.

    Anyway, I think you're on to something. And I'm staying in Oregon. period. You couldn't drag me, pay me, or even kill me and ship my body back to Boston after living out here.

    Noops
     
  20. gezzer

    gezzer Member

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    Had to vote this. The problem is the good ones will make excuses for the bad ones instead of doing what is right.
     
  21. george29

    george29 Member

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    http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:WZUWwrx-PHUJ:www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/pdlc00

    In 2000 there were 796,518 full-time sworn law enforcement officers in the United States


    Type of agency.........Number of agencies........Number of full-time sworn officers


    All State and local..........17,784........................708,022
    Local police...................12,666........................440,920
    Sheriff............................3,070.......................164,711
    Primary State.......................49........................56,348
    Special jurisdiction............1,376.........................43,413
    Texas constable.................623...........................2,630
    Federal*..........................................................88,496
    Note: Special jurisdiction category includes both State-level and local-level agencies. Consolidated police-sheriffs are included under local police category. Agency counts exclude those operating on a part-time basis.
    *Non-military federal officers authorized to carry firearms and make arrests.


    I think you painfully need to add more options to the poll. In a barrel that consists of 800k apples, some have to be rotten, no?

    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/lawenf.htm
     
  22. thexrayboy

    thexrayboy Member

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    I still believe that the number of police who are regular ordinary people is still larger than the number who are dishonest, self serving bullies who would use the constitution as toilet paper before bothering to read it. The question at this time is what is the exact split i.e. 90/10, 80/20 etc and how much has it changed in the last decade or two. And how long before the bad apples outnumber the good ones. The real problem is that the bad ones act badly and get away with it. The good ones turn their heads when they witness bad cops committing crimes and violating citizens rights. Until law enforcement finds a way to police itself effectively and thoroughly I see no improvement in the situation. When police wrong doing is investigated by other police officers the public can have no faith in the outcome.

    I know that we have a significant number of law enforcement officers on this forum. These officers, like virtually all who go into the field swear an oath to
    protect, defend and uphold the constitution. They then ignore that oath every time they arrest a citizen on a firearms charge. This is hypocrisy. The
    Second Amendment is quite specific and we have had numerous threads on this and other similar forums debating the Second Amendment. It can be stated with relative certainty now that we have two sides to this issue.
    One side states that the Second Amendment is a collective government right and the people have no rights under it and that laws may be passed prohibiting citizens from owning the means to defend themselves. The other side states that the Second Amendment is an individual right and any law that restricts citizens from owning, possessing and carrying arms are unconstitutional.

    Officers make a public statement about which camp they belong to every time
    the encounter a citizen in possession of a firearm. What they say is lip service. What they do is the true measure of their belief in our constitution.
     
  23. thorn726

    thorn726 Member

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    Location:
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    the police and me

    my latest incident describes our force well i think, pasted from somewhere else i posted it>>
    well hooray, that makes the THIRD TIME i have been put into handcuffs and detained in a case of mistaken identity.
    i suppose i should be flattered they thought they needed eight police to detain me.
    so glad i come close enough to fitting the description.

    OK,OK i can't Entirely blame our less than cordial force, and they did make an attempt (this time, finally) to believe me as my id, my name on my Funning MAILBOX my bike parked in front of my house and my general "whatever" attitude did more or less indicate, sorry , but as usual-
    it wasnt me, i LIVE HERE
    my mistake- walking out my front door at the wrong time. my neighbors had called the cops because someone had broken in.

    of course im clean shaved and suspect had a moustache, but whatever. i got long hair, close enough. also, burglars usually leisurely walk out of the place they were chased out of tem minutes ago? and have a smoke. yeah.
    anyway, i pretty much let hem do their job, and in the meantime asked how to get additional patrols for MY NEIGHBORHOOD ?duh?

    thanks to my neighbors for taking their time helping the cops figure out it wasnt me. it was 15-20 minutes until i was released.

    AT LEAST the one cop to whom i said "look, you really don't need to push me when you are going to be apologizing to me in a few minutes"
    - actually did apologize, and the initial cop who cuffed me was pretty friendly about it. i dont blame them for their reaction, but this is twice now the police have taken the least effective route in figuring out who i am in this situation.
    considering the number of times i have CALLED THEM from my apt, they should know who i am by now, but whatever.

    STILL - overall, considering i was really as much a victim as the person who called the cops as our building was violated, we have some seriously RUDE booted cops on our force.
    there is no need to continue giving me the "you're guilty" attitude AFTER you figure out that you just wasted 15 minutes harrassing the wrong guy

    oh i forgot- if they didnt waste their time with me, they might have to chase a real suspect
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2007
  24. 07Lway

    07Lway Member

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    It has been my experiance that most cops treat you the way you treat them. I am very introverted, so I just leave the cops alone and hope they do the same to me. I will nod or smile at one if I pass them on the street, but I try to never talk to them. My feelings are the less intrested LEO are in me the better off I am.

    My step-dad though is the most extroverted person I have ever met. He will talk to anyone and it is amazing to see the results he gets with total strangers. He was able to get the Boston police to pretend to cuff him for a photo the day after the London subway bombings. They were very nice, even though they were under extra pressure due to the higher threat level.
     
  25. geronimotwo

    geronimotwo Member

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    Location:
    delaware co, ny
    we are lucky. we live in a small community, only 6 village leo. it seems to me the problems start when the police force becomes large enough to create it's own community. when the only people you hang with are talking about perps, etc, it would be easy to lose touch with the populace. it would be easy to fortget that the majority of us are law abiding when the only stories worth telling are about the adrenaline pumping busts that you've had, or seen. it is easy to become an adrenaline junkie, which could lead to honest cops pushing routine scenarios to the point of breaking. of course, on top of this, there are a few, or more, officers with really bad attitudes. my wife has an ex-husband of that variety. he has been disciplined, suspended, and fired from 3 different departments that we know of. the amazing thing is that the discipline must be just for show, because now he is working for the first department that fired him. this leads me to believe that no matter how outrageous, or anti-social their behavior is, certain police departments really don't care what their officers have done in their past, or will continue to do.
     
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