The Police Contact: Silence Is Golden

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AK103K

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I ran across this on another board. Its good info that applies to a lot of different things besides guns. Its also something that I think everyone should know and understand, as it is "your rights".

Mod's, I put this here as I thought it deserved to be seen by everyone rather than just those in the Legal section.




THE POLICE CONTACT: SILENCE IS GOLDEN

I have debated writing this article for months.

I am a strong supporter of law enforcement, and I have an extensive background in law enforcement. Even now, I have a number of conflicts which cause me great concern with how the information I am about to impart to you will be used. I do not want to enable the criminals in our society to thwart justice, but I am committed to protecting the innocent from what appears to be an explosion of police abuse. In a case like this, I choose to protect the citizens.

I will start with law enforcement contacts with regard to traffic stops for suspicion of driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

The Fifth Amendment of the Bill of Rights states that we are not to be forced to incriminate ourselves. The actual wording is that you cannot be "compelled" to be a witness against yourself. If you are stopped for suspicion of DUI, these are your rights, regardless of the laws of your state.

First, you are to deny having consumed any alcoholic beverages whatsoever. You are never to admit to having one or two drinks. If you admit to consuming even one drop of alcohol, you open the door to probable cause, allowing the police officer to search your vehicle for open containers. Next, you are never to submit to a field sobriety test. You are to refuse to do so. They cannot make you walk the line, balance or anything else. If arrested, you are to refuse to allow a blood or breath test,
regardless of what state law requires, such as revocation of driving privileges for a period of time. That is an attempt to compel you to be a witness against yourself. Supreme Court decisions in this area are quite specific with regard to your rights as follows

Lefkowitz v. Turley, 94 S. Ct. 316, 414 U.S. 70 (19 73).

"The Fifth Amendment provides that no person shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself. The Amendment not only protects the individual against being involuntarily called as a witness against himself in a criminal prosecution but also privileges him not to answer official questions put to him in any other proceeding civil or criminal formal or informal, where the answers might incriminate him in future criminal proceedings.

McCarthy v. Arndstein 266 U.S. 34, 40, 45 S. Ct. 16, 17, 69 L.Ed 158 (1924), squarely held that "the privilege is not ordinarily dependent upon the nature of the proceeding in which the testimony is sought or is to be used. It applies alike to civil and criminal proceedings, whereverthe answer might tend to subject to criminal responsibility him who gives it.

The privilege protects a mere witness as fully as it does one who is a party defendant." Maness v. Myers, 95 S Ct. 584, 419 US 449 (1975).

"...where the Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination is involved ... This Court has always construed its protection to ensure that an individual is not compelled to produce evidence which later maybe used against him as an accused in a criminal action... The protection does not merely encompass evidence which may lead to criminal conviction, but includes information which would furnish a link in the chain of evidence that could lead to prosecution, as well as evidence which an individual reasonably believes could be used against him in a criminal prosecution.
Hoffman v. United States, 341 US. 479, 486, 71 S. Ct. 814, 818, 95L. Ed.
1] 18 (1951). "

"In Kastigar v. United States, 406 U S 441, 92 S Ct. 1653, 32 LEd.212 (1972), we recently reaffirmed the principle that the privilege against self incrimination can be asserted in any proceeding, civil or criminal, administrative or judicial, investigatory or adjudicatory. Id., at444, 92 S.Ct., at 1656; Lefkowitz v. Turley, 414 US. 70, 77, 94 S. Ct. 316,322, 38 L.Ed. 2d 274 (1973)...

Miranda v. Arizona, 86 S.Ct. 1602, 384 US 436 (1966).

"We have recently noted that the privilege against self-incrimination --- the essential mainstay of our adversary system is founded on a complex of values ... To maintain a fair state individual balance, to require the government to shoulder the entire load ... to respect the inviolability of the human personality, our accusatory system of criminal justice demands that the government seeking to punish an individual produce the evidence against him by its own independent labors, rather than by the cruel, simple expedient of compelling it from his own mouth... ln sum, the privilege is fulfilled only when the person is guaranteed the right to remain silent unless he chooses to speak in the unfettered exercise of his own will."

"...there can be no doubt that the Fifth Amendment privilege is available outside. of criminal court proceedings and serves to protect persons in all settings in which their freedom of action is curtailed in any significant way from being compelled to incriminate themselves."

Please also note: The above, as stated by the Supreme Court, are rights and privileges as guaranteed by the Constitution, and anyone (including judges) who knowingly violates those rights may be civilly and criminally liable under several federal statutes. Please see: United States Code,Title 18 Section 241 (Conspiracy against rights), and Section 242(Deprivation of rights under color of law); Title 42 Section 1983 - Section 1986(Civil Rights). Most attempts to pursue action under these laws fail, but very skilled litigators with good factual circumstances can sometimes get some satisfaction. However, if more individuals were to understand the above rights and exercise them at the appropriate times, more successful litigation could be the outcome.

Okay, you got that? You cannot be forced to provide evidence against yourself, therefore you must not allow any tests whatsoever, be it field sobriety "walking the line", or a blood or breath test. Period. If you will follow these instructions, they have no case against you and they are also barred from taking away your driving privileges under the same Supreme Court rulings.

Now to more serious matters If you are contacted as a possible suspect, or even a witness, in any other law enforcement investigation, you are to say nothing. You are to say nothing even when your attorney is present. You are to say nothing, regardless of evidence of your guilt as presented by the law enforcement officers. You are not to try to explain away the circumstances of the evidence they present to you. You are to say absolutely nothing. No matter how tempted you are to try to talk your way out of the situation, you are to give them absolutely NOTHING to verify. If they ask you if the sky is blue on a clear day, you are to say nothing. You are to give them nothing whatsoever. Whatever evidence or witness information they have, you are to say nothing. Even denying any of their allegations can be used against you in a prosecution if it is determined later that you obviously lied. You are to stay MUTE.

The reason for this is quite simple: The evidence the law enforcement officers have is all they must be required to work with. Don't give them anything more. The only time you should consider the option of telling your side of the story is to your attorney in privacy, or in a court of law if prosecuted.

Because you have stayed mute, giving law enforcement nothing in addition to the extrinsic evidence and witness information at hand, the burden of proof available to the district attorney is severely limited and will most often result in a dismissal of charges unless their evidence and witness input is overwhelming and compelling enough for a grand jury to return a bill of indictment. And even if bound over for trial, the jury will be limited to consider only that evidence and witness input.

When you are given your Miranda Rights wherein you are informed that anything you say can and will be used against you, take it to heart If you say absolutely nothing, NOTHING can and will be used against you in a court of law.

There are literally thousands of people behind bars today who tried to talk their way out of a law enforcement contact. Don't fall for the ploy. Law enforcement officers are trained to bluff you into making denials or statements. They will appear friendly and reasonable. They will appear willing to help resolve the matter. They will tempt you to talk about it and appear sympathetic. Don't fall for it. Say nothing. Give them nothing.
Deny nothing. Give them NOTHING. Stick your tongue between your teeth and bite down - HARD. You are to be a marble statue. You do not exist. You have no past, you have no address, you have no name, you have no social security number. You are to give them nothing whatsoever to work with.
This includes whether you understand your miranda rights. When asked if you understand your rights, either say no or don't say anything. Spending a night in jail is preferable to incriminating yourself.
 
I know a man who did this. He was arrested for a felony and bonded out of jail. It never went before the grand jury. It never went to trial. He'd call up the DA's office wanting to know the status of the pending charges every couple of months...they got so they'd hang up on him. He died of old age 20 years later with the charge still "pending."
 
While I find this information useful to some I have to disagree with it in a way.

I don't think anyone should drink and drive, no matter the situation or excuse. Alcohol impares ones ability to drive a vehicle safely. I also don't think you should carry a gun while drinking, it's just asking for trouble in my book. I think this is a poor example to discuss in a public forum.

I do agree with keeping your mouth shut when it comes to police interrogations. In my 15 years of Law Enforcement it amazed me at how many people wanted to talk even after they had been read their rights.
 
1. The forum categories exist for a reason. I'm moving this thread.

2. This is great advice if you're actually guilty of something. OTOH, it is very poor advice if you are a witness. Or if there is a simple discrepancy that can be cleared up by answering a few basic questions.

Common sense- whatever happened to that? I mean...you get stopped and informed that the PoPo is looking for a robbery suspect. Well...you certainly didn't rob anybody. Do you:

A. Answer reasonable questions so that they'll realize that you're not the bad guy, so that way the contact with you will end quickly, and you can go about your day, and they don't have to waste time interviewing an innocent man when they could be searching for the real robber?

-or-

B. Do your imitation of a clam, which (depending on the facts and circumstances), could result in you being cuffed, detained, possibly interviewed by detectives, and helps ensure that the wicked go unpunished?

Hmmmm....let me think now....hmmmm...... :rolleyes:

Mike
 
Oh yeah...if you DO get arrested, and you really try the "John Doe, 1234 Main Street, Anywhere USA, SSN of 123-45-6789" routine? You will not be offered bond, and will be in jail pending trial.

This assumes, of course, that you don't have other identifying documents on you at time of arrest (which would make the whole thing a pointless exercise, no?).

Mike :rolleyes:
 
Of course it would be nice if AK103 has a law degree and is licensed to practice somewhere. Sounds very close to praticing w/o a license, a felony is some jurisdictions.

Sure its just an opinion. But as presented with cases cited etc. it sure sounds like a legal strategy to over come a DUI or other crimes. Worse some of the information is inaccurate. Even licensed attorneys won't give out general legal information like this. For one its unethical. Too many variables in a persons given situation. Further there is too many differences in state laws.

As some have already stated they believe this is excellent advice guess who is on the hook if they rely on it to their detriment? Not just the person relying on it but the cool jail house lawyer they got it from (civil suit for malpractice practice w/o a license etc. even if unsuccessful, its expensive and a pain to defend and maybe criminal carges for PWL, AK103)

As just one example, some folks have found themselves in deportation proceedings because they kept their mouths shut when they should have said something. There are no absolutes, especially in the law.

You have to give info required for processing Name, address, etc. or they can continue to hold you.

In most states you have consented to any and all sobriety tests by accepting and signing your drivers' license (those in Fla. check right now on the signature line) thats how they take away your license when you refuse.

Some states like Florida require mandatory blood testing in accidents with serious injury or death. The police can use reasonable force to have that sample taken.
 
Oh yeah...if you DO get arrested, and you really try the "John Doe, 1234 Main Street, Anywhere USA, SSN of 123-45-6789" routine? You will not be offered bond, and will be in jail pending trial.


Name, rank, and serial number then.


This is great advice if you're actually guilty of something. OTOH, it is very poor advice if you are a witness. Or if there is a simple discrepancy that can be cleared up by answering a few basic questions.


Like self-defense?

Answer a few of those questions off the cuff and you just may well be "guilty" in the eyes of the prosecutor's office.

Of course it would be nice if AK103 has a law degree and is licensed to practice somewhere. Sounds very close to praticing w/o a license, a felony is some jurisdictions.

I doubt he needs one, since he isn't the author.
 
"If you will follow these instructions, they have no case against you and they are also barred from taking away your driving privileges under the same Supreme Court rulings."

Incorrect, assuming that the arresting officer is vaguely competent at his or her job.

And... Well, basically what Coronach said, so I'll leave it at that.
 
I understand what your saying about the quick question thing and that makes sense, and I think if I "wasnt" being detained or directly questioned as if I was the suspect, then I would answer them. I think the bulk of the article was dealing with what to do if you were the suspect or were being detained. These days I dont trust anyone to have "my" best interests at heart, no matter how much they tell me so. I do believe I would rather spend the night in jail rather than say something that "sounds" incriminating, or could end up being used in that fashion, especially if I didnt do anything wrong. If they truly belive I did something, (cause why else was I there?) then let them prove it or let me go. You said its great advice if you actually did something wrong, well what if you didnt and they accuse you of it? Dont you think it best to dummy up and let your lawyer do the talking? I'd still rather spend the night in jail, than the next 10 years or whatever for something that I said that was used against me. As to the name rank and serial number part, I took it to mean, you dont say anything, but to let your lawyer do the talking. I didnt see that it said they didnt know who you were.
 
Some issues that the author missed.

While a driver is certainly free to refuse to submit to field sobriety tests, and free to refuse chemical testing of his blood alcohol content after arrest, the jury will most probably be instructed they can take these facts into consideration as establishing "consciousness of guilt."

I'm sure if a jury convicted a driver under these circumstances, a judge would not be disposed to granting the minimum sentence allowed.

California, and I am sure other states as well, are all too willing to suspend a driver's license for refusing to submit to chemical testing of his blood. I think CA provides for a one year suspension for refusal to submit to chemical testing the first offense, two years the second offense, and three years the third offense.

I arrested a fellow once for DUI who refused to perform the field sobriety tests and refused to submit to chemical testing. He went back to prison for violating his parole on his previous felony DUI conviction, plus he had another sentence to serve as a result of my arrest.

One other thing, the courts have ruled that if vital evidence is being destroyed, i.e. alcohol in the blood is being metabolized, the police can after a lawful arrest forcibly draw blood in a medically approved manner. This most assuredly will be done in a suspected DUI case where there was a traffic accident and people were seriously injured or killed. See Bodily Intrusion Searches Incident to Arrest
 
Thats right, I'm not the author. (thanks for pointing that out CZ-75)
As I stated, it was something I found on the web. Truthfully, I dont trust anyone in authority these days. If I'm in a position of being questioned for something unlawful, then I'm damn sure asking for a lawyer, innocent or not! If you dont want to, hey, get to flappin your lips, its your butt, not mine. The DUI part of the article was in there and I thought it best to leave it intact, rather than edit it. I dont drink and drive, hell, I dont drink, but if you want to, thats your business and your worry. As for anything in the article, I personally would talk to your attorney if you think you might have need of anything in it. Laws vary from state to state and the DUI thing may not apply. Then again, maybe it does and those telling you otherwise are talking out their butts too. Ask your attorney! I posted this because it seemed to offer something that you dont think about as most of us are "law abiding" citizens and assume, (as naive as we are) that all those in law enforcement are our friends, and have our best interests at heart. If they are questioning you about something, your involved. If you didnt do anything, and it could involve you. Call, your attorney! I think the whole point of the article was to SHUT UP and let your attorney do the talking for you.
 
Well, my browser just ate a response. :p

CZ-75:

Thats a different scenario. Change the scenario, change the answer. Self defense shooting? yeah, clam up. Cooperate with the arrest paperwork (name? Address? Phone number? DOB? etc), but politely and firmly request a lawyer before you discuss the events that led up to you being in custody.

AK:

At some point, sure, if you're being accused in some Kafka-esque scenario. A good point would probably be right after you say this: "Ok...Sir, I told you what happened from my point of view. I didn't do anything. Am I free to go now?" and receive a negative response.

Mike
 
I have a lot of respect for law enforcement, but having worked with them for years, I have come to realize that their occupational hazard is finding a theory first and the facts to support it second.

I wish it was not like that. Not all cops are like that; but how do you know when you are speaking with a cop like that?

No suspect ever successfully talked himself out of investigation/prosecution once he was in the crosshairs.
 
No suspect ever successfully talked himself out of investigation/prosecution once he was in the crosshairs.
No, but there are plenty of suspects who have talked themselves IN TO investigation/prosecution.

I've known too may LEOs with the attitude that they can "find" something to arrest anyone for, that they can turn the full force of the law against anyone they wish. In this day and age the notion of "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't mean much, when they can make your life hell until you're proven "not guilty".

I've got a good friend who was put through the wringer by police and his ex-wife, and though in the end he was vindicated, he was also ruined both financialy and in his standing in the community. His ex-wife accused him of child molestation in order to win custody battle ... officers involved ran roughshod over his rights left and right, to the point that one of them was actually punished by his superiors. In the end my friend was cleared of all wrongdoing, but had to sell his house to pay his lawyer, and many in the community still look at him as though he "got away with it".

According to his lawyer, had he exercised his 5th amendment rights and not said anything to the police officer that first contacted him, this case would have been dropped and cost him almost nothing.

America is becoming more and more of a police state every day. I believe this move toward police state has had a big effect on LEOs and I'd say there are less trustworthy ones on the job today then 20 years ago. Rediculous laws like RICO and the USAPatriot act only reinforce bad police behavior so I imagine its only going to get worse.

I have the right to remain silent ... I choose to exercise that right.
 
from the UK perspective, we are fortunate in that refusing a roadside breath test at the scene of an accident / after a moving road traffic offence or where the officer concerned suspects the driver has been drinking is arrestable and the courts take a dim view of refusals - there are few reasons why one could legitimately refuse both on the roadside or at the station (we use either the evidential breath tester, or samples of blood or urine to determine drink-drive levels).

with regards to silences, our system is somewhat different in that, although we still have the right of silence, but that if the defendant fails or refuses to mention or account for something it may later count against him at trial. obviously if one has been arrested one should be truthful about name, address and so on (it sounds like youd have as much chance of getting bail in the US as you do here for fibbing about name/address) and **** about everything else until you speak to legal advice.

unless of course you want to confess :D
 
Refuse to give a blood, breath or urine sample in PA.....we can't make you submit.......but your going to loose your drivers license for a year......automatically.
 
Its called implied consent. If you pay attention when you get your driver's license, that is explained quite clearly.

Mike
 
What Zundfolge said....


I'm not sure what I'd do if stopped for DUI, but I almost never drink, so that's not a likely occurance.

If the police were asking for help about a crime that just occured and I might have seen someting connected with it -- I think I would help, especially if it would aid in the capture. However, if I thought that that was their way of setting me up, of course I would not talk.

And anything else, name, rank and serial number only.


We've come a long way from the days of "officer friendly", and the general moral decline has certainly affected the police, as well. I no longer trust police, courts, judges to be free from corruption and were I to find myself in their clutches, why on earth would I do something to help them to damage me.

On the other hand, with all of the above said, I do NOT harbor hostility toward the police. I know that they must deal with the worst in our society and must risk their lives in the line of duty.

Part of the problem is that they do not make the laws, but must enforce some very bad ones -- like the drug laws and other victimless crime laws, "insider trading" and as mentioned above, RICO statutes. And what about civil and criminal asset forfeiture laws?

Although those involved in criminal justice argue that the system cannot work without it, I still think that plea-bargaining is a miscarriage of justice.

We need the police, I consider it a thankless job and I wouldn't want it.

But that doesn't mean that I should offer myself as meat for their grinder, either.

Matis
 
*snort*

As far as drunk drivers go, you can print the starting post in 5-inch high Day-Glo letters on the inside of the windscreen of the primary vehicle used by said drunk, but I'm here to tell you, once that BAC hits about .10 or so the booze is playing Whack-A-Mole with the old neurons and all the advice in the world is going to be forgotten.

And, personally, a dash-cam video-tape of of some old boy stating:

No-ooo, shir! I dont'sh hash to do the, the, wossname, sha finner on the, the nosh [hic] thang! Shat's it! The noz. 'M an Mercan, dammit! [hic] 'Nv'e got rites! 'S in the con-, -Cons, the Constitootootooshin! Says, I don't got to nuttin', nuffin', scuz me, gotta hurkl. Shurry 'bout th' boots. 'Nuttin'... [hic]woz we talkin' 'bout?

Works a darn sight better on a jury than a video-tape of a Standardized Field Sobriety Test.

LawDog
 
No-ooo, shir! I dont'sh hash to do the, the, wossname, sha finner on the, the nosh [hic] thang! Shat's it! The noz. 'M an Mercan, dammit! [hic] 'Nv'e got rites! 'S in the con-, -Cons, the Constitootootooshin! Says, I don't got to nuttin', nuffin', scuz me, gotta hurkl. Shurry 'bout th' boots. 'Nuttin'... [hic]woz we talkin' 'bout?
Now thats funny! :) Pretty soon you wont be able to take a dump without being on the ole police cam. :)
 
CZ75, Whether you are the original author or not. When you put something on the web or for that matter, publish it in any manner, say its something that everyone needs to know etc., you are basically adopting it as your own and giving it up as advice.

If that advice can be construed as legal, medical or tax advice you should be extra carefull.
 
I'm not giving advice and I'm very careful not to give any advice that may be construed as legal , medical or tax advice, so that someone doesn't screw up and think there is an attorney/doctor/ accountant and client relationship.

Why don't you ask any of the lawyers on the board.
 
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