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The Power of CCW... to Resolve a Potentially Bad Situation

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Werewolf, Oct 10, 2005.

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  1. Werewolf

    Werewolf Member

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    Yesterday, having recovered from my recent bout with gout - well - almost anyway, and as is my want I grabbed my camera, hopped on my motorcycle and headed out to the lake for a little walking and picture taking. I was carrying a 1911 along with two spare mags under the flannel shirt I was wearing.

    I got to the lake and drove up one of the many dirt roads there looking for a place to take some shots of the lake and the flora/fauna before the dreary days of an Oklahoma Autumn set in. I found a good spot, dismounted and parked the bike. I stayed within 30 yards or so of the road as I walked occasionally stopping to take what I thought would make a good picture. During the time a number of pickups and cars passed without incident.

    About 1/2 hour into the walk I heard another vehicle coming down the road, a van, loud music blaring, laughter and shouting coming from what was an obviously drunken bunch of teens (looked like college age to me). The sliding door was open and an attractive bikini clad young woman yelled out to me, "hey guy!", as the van approached. Two college age young men - obviously drunk hung on beside her and I noticed another young woman and young man in the driver's and passenger's seats.

    After the young woman yelled one of the young men shouted out, "Quit jackin' off dude!", out the door of the van.

    My first reaction was to respond. 10 years ago I'd have yelled some obscenties back at 'em and questioned both the sexuality and profession of the guy's mother and ended with a comment on the legitimacy of his birth.

    To be honest the words were already formed up in my brain and my mouth was opened when it occured to me that an appropriate (or inappropriate as the case may be) response was probably not in order since I was carrying.

    There were three drunken young men in that van. If they stopped and wanted to make an issue of it there was no way I could take on 3 college age guys 30 years younger than me and come out of it healthy. In addition I still had twinges of the gout in my right foot and ankle and there was no way I could run. Actually, even without the gout running on the wet spongey ground I was on at the time would have been iffy at best anyway.

    Which meant if I escalated the situation and they stopped I'd either have to shoot the punks or get the crap beat out of me. That thought process took no more than 1/2 a second (training, habit, THR discussions on the same subject).

    So I gagged on my pride, choked off the words and just waved at the passing van as it drove by.

    To be honest if I hadn't had that 1911 with me I'd probably have had to take a beating because it is in my nature to respond to offensive comments in kind.

    Now I just have to figure out how to do the same when not carrying.

    Anyone else with tales that reinforce the message?
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2005
  2. middy

    middy Member

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    Two words: "Pepper spray" :D
     
  3. NoahFN

    NoahFN Member

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    I couldn't help but laugh after reading that. Good call on not responding though.
     
  4. Double Maduro

    Double Maduro Member

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    No, you don't, all you have to do is always carry.

    Good story that illustrates the change in mind set once we start CCW.

    DM
     
  5. Spot77

    Spot77 Member

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    "An armed society is a polite society"



    Good call on your part.
     
  6. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Those that enter into combat have already lost.

    When you fight, you will be in jail or the hospital. I'd much rather be on my motorcycle doing what I wish to do, rather than what the corrections officer tells me to do. ;)
     
  7. Mongo the Mutterer

    Mongo the Mutterer Member

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    Good Call Werewolf.

    Let'em go on with their useless lives. Time wounds all heels.
     
  8. EddieCoyle

    EddieCoyle Member

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    +1


    Kinda makes you grow up, doesn't it? I've been in similar situations several times and reacted the same way. Now if open carry were allowed...
     
  9. Mulliga

    Mulliga Member

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    I just ignore people like that.

    Being a college student myself, I see that behavior a lot. Most young people do not carry, so I think to myself, "I'm carrying a gun - they're not. They're helpless, I'm not." There's a certain pride (or at least self-assurance) in being willing to defend yourself, and you can see these kinds of people for what they are - immature and vulnerable.
     
  10. Oldtimer

    Oldtimer Member

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    By opening your mouth and playing to "their" game of idiocy, you might have escalated the situation.
    By remaining silent, you may have become somewhat of an "enigma" to them.....the strong/silent type.

    The "motor-mouths" are usually only talk, and without substance. The quiet ones are best to steer clear of!

    Several years ago, while target shooting in a remote desert spot by myself, a group of punks on dirt bikes came riding up. "This is private property, and you have to leave", the spokesman punk yelled to me. I knew that it wasn't private property, so I yelled back, "I'm not finished shooting, and you happen to be in the way of the targets I'm shooting at". The punk spokesman responded with, "You had better be gone when we come back!". I responded to that with, "I'll leave when I'm finished".

    The punks rode off, but DID return a couple of hours later.....and I could see that they were ARMED! "You're still here?", the idiot of a spokesman asked. I blandly replied, "And you're AGAIN in front of the targets that I'm shooting at!"

    What it boiled down to was the fact that I hadn't allowed them to intimidate me, and hadn't lowered myself to their level, by using foul language or "tough guy" words. The TRUTH, however, was that I had taken some time to run through some tactics AND to load up all of the firearms that I had with me, between their first and second visits.

    When the punks revved their bike engines, just before leaving the second time, the spokesman yelled out, "Man, you MUST be crazy!". I didn't respond to that until they angrily drove away.
    I sat down and popped open a cold beer, then muttered to myself, "Maybe I am crazy!"

    That incident took place back in the late 1970's, after having been a police officer for about 8 years AND having been in REAL combat, back in 1967-1968. I grew up FAST when I was in the military, and my combat experience paid off nicely when I decided to get into law enforcement. I had never been in the Boy Scouts, but their motto of "Be Prepared" certainly stuck in my mind. I also learned a life-time lesson from one of my "old- timer" training officers when I was a rookie....
    "Be professional all the time. If someone calls you an A-hole, call them SIR! It will piss them off, but it will WORK in your favor!" He also taught me that it is best to keep the words short, but effectively spoken. I adhered to his words of advice through my 31 years in law enforcement, and they're still worthy to those who think that "fight fires with fire" might be the thing to do. Call me an A-hole? I'll just remain silent, or call you "sir", while realizing what an IDIOT you are! Just keep steady watch on their hands and eyes.
     
  11. one-shot-one

    one-shot-one Member

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    i'm just glad

    that i'm not the only one who struggles with the need to disipline those whose parents appearently didn't. congrats on your restraint.
     
  12. hartzpad

    hartzpad Member

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    did you at least snap any shots of the bikini clad young ladies to post here in revenge?
     
  13. Darth Ruger

    Darth Ruger Member

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    Interesting story. First time I ever heard of a situation where the concealed gun changed the attitude of the carrier rather than the troublemakers. Good call on that, Werewolf, for two reasons:

    1. You never know, those punks in the van might have had guns, too. Then you would have been in real trouble, being outnumbered.

    2. You acted like a responsible CCW holder should and let it go. It reminds me of a quote from one of my daughter's favorite movies (Spiderman): "With great power comes great responsibility."

    I recall on another forum, this guy posted a story about how someone in another car cut him off, yelled something out the window at him, and proceeded to drive off. He wouldn't let the guy get away with that, so he sped up, yelled an obscenity back, and drove off. The other guy followed him. When he got where he was going, the other guy pulled up, got out of his car, and started toward him with a pissed off look on his face. Our hero pull his jacket back, put his hand on the grip of his carry gun and started walking back, telling the guy "I don't want to talk to you, leave me alone" or something like that. After saying this a few times, the guy kept coming, so he pulled his gun and held it at low-ready. That changed the guy's mind, so he got in his car and left.

    He thought when he posted his story everyone would congratulate him for deftly using his carry gun to diffuse what could have been a violent attack. Instead, the forum members lambasted him for escalating the situation. In my opinion, he deserved it. When the guy cut him off and yelled something at him and started to drive off, he could have simply let it go and nothing would have happened. Instead, he let his temper get the best of him and it could have ended in a shooting. Who knows, the other guy might have had a gun too, and if it ended with shots fired, an innocent bystander could have been shot because of a situation that didn't have to happen.

    In my opinion, if you're going to carry, it's your duty to avoid escalating a situation, even if it means swallowing your pride and not responding to an insult. And anyone that simply can't resist replying to an insult shouldn't carry a gun, because that kind of person will unnecessarily escalate a situation every time. A concealed gun and a bad temper is a recipe for disaster.
     
  14. HankB

    HankB Member

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    Only an IDIOT tries to pick a fight with a total stranger for no reason - that stranger may well be armed.

    The guys in the van were IDIOTS.

    Do you REALLY care what proven IDIOTS say to or about you?

    I'm habitually armed unless it's illegal at that time & place (secure area of airport, polling place on election day, etc.) and I WILL NOT escalate verbal abuse or reply in kind to road rage. If escalation occurs to the point where I have to employ deadly force for the safety of myself and my companions, I'm going to do all I can to be sure ALL the escalation takes place on the part of the other guy, for both legal and moral reasons. If that means he goes off thinking he "out-toughed" me, fine. He's an idiot - I don't care what he thinks.

    By not responding in kind to the drunks in the van, you did good - here's a big "ATTABOY" for you.
     
  15. Ala Dan

    Ala Dan Member in memoriam

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    Good call there Werewolf; you took "The High Road"~! :D
     
  16. Werewolf

    Werewolf Member

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    LOL! Where was your wisdom WHEN I really needed it? :evil:
     
  17. thorn726

    thorn726 Member

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    if we had to get riled up everytime some idiot yelled out a passing car here, it would be a non stop battle.

    how can what an IDIOT thinks or says ever matter?

    +1 to El Tejon

    ignoring idiots is always the best method
     
  18. MikeIsaj

    MikeIsaj Member

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    Good call Werewolf. I have had my "type A" personality tempered by CCW. You realy do think before you get into a pi#$ing contest.
     
  19. torpid

    torpid Member

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    So did you quit after the guy in the van shouted out?

    :D

    (Hoping you're carrying as you read this...)
     
  20. Tokugawa

    Tokugawa Member

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    You thought and acted well. We are held to a higher standard when bearing arms. Like as not the kids were drunk and goofing around, unfortunately for them they never got the education or parenting to teach them better. No sense in confrontation, they couldn't back down because of male pride- the only social interaction that makes sense with this sort of thing is to ignore them, or if that is not possible, humour them.
     
  21. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    I've noticed I speed a lot less since I started carrying. Easier to avoid problems than solve them.
     
  22. Majic

    Majic Member

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    So are you saying that without a firearm you still are just as big of an idiot as the drunks were? Still got a ways to grow up I guess, but at least you are getting there.
     
  23. bogie

    bogie Member

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    911

    "Hello - I just witnessed a van full of people who appeared to be very intoxicated. It's going toward Oak Hills, and I'm afraid they could hurt themselves or someone else."

    Keep an eye on police auctions.
     
  24. Flyboy

    Flyboy Member

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    Gun zen.

    I've noticed that I, too, have become a lot more serene since I've started keeping a 1911 on my hip. I've had any number of cases like Darth Ruger describes: cut off in traffic by some jerk with more horsepower than IQ points (often as not, on a small motorcycle :neener: ), and I've found myself laughing, rather than punching the gas to show him who's who. I've come to realize that it just isn't worth it.

    Even if he was the one to initiate the situation, even if he came at with me with a knife for passing him, I'd have missed an opportunity to de-escalate the situation by not ignoring him. While I might legally be in the clear, I'd still bear some moral culpability for his death if he forced me to defend myself after I'd missed an opportunity to let him go.

    Slugs like that just aren't worth it. Karma has a funny way of evening up the scores; I don't need to help out.
     
  25. fedlaw

    fedlaw Member

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    Amen!
     
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