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The RCBS 505 Scale is not worth the volume of air it takes up.

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Tomekeuro85, Jan 10, 2006.

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  1. Tomekeuro85

    Tomekeuro85 Member

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    I am so mad right now. I have been spending about 5 mins to measure each individual charge of Varget for my .223 loads for the last 4 hours. I only have about 30 rounds charged and thats where I'm stopping because I do not have time for this nonsense scale. I know why it is called the 505. Because you can measure the charge 5 times, and you'll get an accurate reading 0 times, so you'll have to measure 5 more times. I'm about to send this scale on a high speed adventure towards my wall because watching it explode will be of more value to me than using this piece of trash to measure powder charges. For example: I can put up 26 grains, and then when i take off that golden little pan and put it back on to the scale, I get something like 26.2. If i take it back off and put it on again i get 25.9. I add some powder and it says 25.9 again. I add some more and it jumps to 26.3. This process repeats itself for about 5 mins until I get a consistent reading of 26 at least 3 times in a row, just to be safe. I have tried every combination of techniques to try to get this to work, but with no success. On top of that, the uniflo measure practially doesn't work with varget. (but that is to be expected because the manual said that cylindrical powders won't be as consistent). Anyhow, that concludes my anger. If anyone wants to trade an electronic dispenser and scale combo for an RCBS 505, just let me know. haha.
     
  2. SemiAutoMan

    SemiAutoMan Member

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    sounds like something to target practice at next time you shoot ;)
     
  3. Mal H

    Mal H Administrator

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    That model of scale should be better than you described. Has it fallen recently? Sounds like one or both bearings may be damaged. Or they could have some grit or dust on them. Remove the arm and clean the bearing area and the knife blades. If that doesn't help, check that it is on a sturdy table and that there is no air currents of any type hitting it.

    Another possibility, though more remote than the above problems, is static electricity. How is the humidity in the room where you are reloading?
     
  4. Tomekeuro85

    Tomekeuro85 Member

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    It has not fallen any time recently. I just got this scale, along with the whole Rockchucker kit about 2 weeks ago. This is the second time using this scale. I had no problems the first time I used it. I made sure all the moving parts were clean several times. There is no air current, and the table is sturdy. I am thinking if anything, there might be static like you mentioned. I am in a different area than I was when it worked good the first time, and now I have all these problems. I'm not going to give up though, a little thing like this is not enough to stop me.
     
  5. Tomekeuro85

    Tomekeuro85 Member

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    Under further examination, I noticed that when weight is added to the pan, the left side of the long arm moves up. However, last time I used this scale, the arm would move up smoothly, and smoothly change direction and move downward. It would continue this until it was balanced. Now what it does is this: on its way up, the left side of the arm stops abruptly, as if it is hitting something, but there is nothing there, nor is there anything under the pan or anywhere near the scale. I checked again for dirt on all the moving parts, but I dont see any, unless there is something there that I do not see.
     
  6. Lambo

    Lambo Member

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    Is this the Scale that's part of the RCBS RC Supreme Reloading Kit?
     
  7. Tomekeuro85

    Tomekeuro85 Member

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    Yes, this one came with the kit.
     
  8. dakotasin

    dakotasin Member

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    first, email rcbs. they will want the scale sent to them. do it.
    next... don't be so anal about your loads. i am an accuracy freak, but i've spent the last couple years trying to figure out if powder charge is that important... it is, but not as important as you are making it.

    varget isn't the best metering powder, but it meters well enough for the rcbs uniflow. set it, get into your loading rhythm, and then weigh your first few throws to make sure you are staying in rhythm (the more times you tap the thrower, the more powder you'll get - just get into a rhythm). then, start charging away.

    yeah, i had a real hard time getting away from 'weigh and trickle every charge', but i proved it to myself, and no longer drive myself nutty on the bench. i didn't do this w/ just one or two guns, i did it w/ a lot of guns...
     
  9. rutten

    rutten Member

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    Email or call RCBS. I have used their customer service a couple of times and they are fabulous to work with. If they want you to send the scale in request that you be refunded for shipping charges. I do not think that will be a problem. I have measures thousands of loads with a 505 and have been very happy with its accuracy. I recently purchased a digital scale but will still on ocassion test it against the 505 and they are both spot on.
    Scott
     
  10. Tomekeuro85

    Tomekeuro85 Member

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    Thanks everyone for the help. I'll be sure to email them and I'll see what they say.
     
  11. BruceB

    BruceB Member

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    I logged a lot of time with the 5-0-5 scale before moving up to the 10-10 model. The only reason I changed was to get the ability to weigh heavier objects. I keep the 5-0-5 handy as a backup in case of unforeseen difficulties.

    Your description of the arm's movement sounds VERY much as if there's something foreign in the vee(s) of the agate bearings, where the beam actually rests on its sharp-edged pivots. I'd get a magnifying glass and take a HARD look into those bearings under a strong light, and if nothing's in there that shouldn't be, then I'd take an equally hard look at the bearing surfaces on those pivot arms on the beam. Maybe even a careful bit of LIGHT stoning on the pivot surfaces of the arms to remove any possible tiny burrs would be in order.

    Make sure that the bearings and arms are left absolutely clean and dry, to avoid attracting grit and crud. There certainly should be no hitches whatever in the movement of the beam.

    My 5-0-5 is sensitive enough to register the weight of my name, written in pencil, on a piece of paper. Weighing the little bit of paper first, I'd then write my name on it and the scale would tell me how much pencil graphite (or whatever that stuff is) I'd just scrawled onto the paper.

    You have a good scale, and it will serve you well once the problem is cured. They've sold many thousands of them over the years, after all. Definitely, give RCBS a call. They might even send you a new one!
     
  12. redneck2

    redneck2 Member

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    Sounds like something's hanging up. Should be smooth

    That said, I basically ran into the same thing with my balance beam. I got a PACT. Rapidly blinks 2-3 times and gives the same reading every time.
     
  13. HSMITH

    HSMITH Member

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    Sounds like there is some crud in the pivot for the beam......
     
  14. huntingnt

    huntingnt Member

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    Get a hold of RCBS

    I have never had any problems with my 505 scale, but will tell you that I had a small problem with a set of .38 spl dies, called RCBS, and they sent new seating plugs for RN and SWC and extra decapping pins just for the heck of it.
    They are a great company to deal with. The best customer service I have experienced in a long time.
     
  15. Steve in PA

    Steve in PA Member

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    I'd clean all the pivoting points. I've been using that same scale (came with the kit) for over 15 years and have had zero problems with it.
     
  16. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Member

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    I loaded using a RCBS 5-0-5 for the first 5 years of my loading hobby. It served me well. I now have a RCBS (Pact) electronic scale... I have never done anything with my 5-0-5 except to blow it off with compressed air from one of those cans used to clean computer key boards...You will not get mine as I still use it to varify my Electronic scale. It is a great backup...:)
     
  17. klw

    klw Member

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    Finally I get a chance

    Spent seven years in college studying chemistry. This may be the only time in life I'll actually use that education from so long ago.

    The little weights on this kind of balance are called riders. I don't remember the exact layout on this particular balance but normally the riders are divided into two sides. One side has the really large weight increments and one side has the really small ones. What actually happens is that the large weights actually add weights as they are moved out along the balance beam and the small weight subtracts. Believe me or not that is the way it works.

    BUT this layout has one oddity. Since one side adds and one side subtracts they have to be almost perfectly made to work properly. So 25.9 + 0.1 may or may not be 26.0 depending on the exact nature of your balances riders. REALLY small differences here make a large difference in the weight. This has always been true.

    When I first tripped over this maybe 20 years ago it took me quite a while to figure it out. Having not thought about it in 20 years probably makes this explaination hard to follow. Sorry about that.

    But the point is one rider or set of riders add weight and one rider, the smallest, on the other part of the balance, subtracts weight. Right at the point where you go from say 25.9 grains to 25.9 + 0.1 grains these kind of balances can get, well, fuzzy. It has always been true. They are much better if you aren't at a place where this one oddity is occuring. So 25.4 + 0.1 is going to be 24.5 but 24.9 + 0.1 might well be 25.2.

    I'm sure I have not explained this well but go experiment with you balance.
     
  18. bogie

    bogie Member

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    Before you do this, try some brake cleaner on the scale where the pieces meet, then wipe everything down with a lintless rag.

    The RCBS Uniflow is also a good measure - give it time.

    1) Run about 10 hoppers of powder through your measure. Operate the handle the same way every time. Yeah. It'll be boring.

    2) Now, measure a charge. And the next charge. And 8 more... Then add 'em together and divide by 10 to get an average. Are you plus/minus 0.1 grain? That's as close as _any_ mass-market reloading scale is going to get you.

    Er... Turn off the furnace while you're doing this - the air currents will shift things.

    Now's for the fun part.

    3) Try a few charges with the measure, and be very gentle with it. See how they spread...

    4) Now whomp on the thing... Hard up, whack it again, hard down, then whack it again. But try to be uniform. How does that work?

    Figure out what gives you your closest, most consistent, spread, and use that technique.

    FWIW, I shoot benchrest competition, and I rarely use a scale.
     
  19. Stinger

    Stinger Member

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    Well, I sure hope that is not the way it works, because if it is, I have been using mine wrong for years :what:

    Regards,

    Stinger
     
  20. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    You must be cause that's how my scale works.:)
     
  21. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Member

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    I agree stinger...The large weight if moved to the right will lesson the weight. The other "two" on the other side of the folcrum also lesson the weight as they are moved to the right...:)
     
  22. Stinger

    Stinger Member

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    Right.

    A move to the left increases weight on any poise. A move to the right decreases weight on any poise.

    Geez, you guys had me scared for a second. I checked the RCBS website, and there are instuctions for the scale.

    Here is the link...http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instructions/Model505ScaleInstructions.pdf


    The way klw described it, you needed a degree in astro-physics, and at least a Masters in Mathematics.

    Regards,

    Stinger
     
  23. LHB1

    LHB1 Member

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    I have an old model Lyman-Ohaus M5 manual scale which is very similar to the current RCBS 1010 model. The pan is on the right, a large slider is on the left side of fulcrum, and a small slider is on the right side of fulcrum near the pan. You move the large slider to the left for heavier weights in increments of 5 grains IIRC. You move the small slide also to the left for heavier weights in increments of .1 grain up to a max of 5 grains. Remember the small slider is on the opposite side of fulcrum from large slider. Thus when you move the small slider to the left (DECREASING the actual weight on that side) it is the same as ADDING that weight to the opposite side of fulcrum where the large slider is. This may be what KLW was trying to say above if I understood his post correctly. So you ADD the weight indicated by large slider AND the weight indicated by the small slider to obtain the total weight of object being weighed. You do NOT subtract the small slider weight from the large slider weight, at least on this model scale.

    Good shooting and be safe.
    LB
     
  24. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Member

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    A technicality...Not all of us are engineering grads and we veiw everything in a simpler manor. We depend on the "KISS" theory...:D
     
  25. klw

    klw Member

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    I knew that I should have kept my mouth shut!

    I also knew that I explained it badly. When I first realized how these things worked I didn't quite believe it. Of course 20 years of not thinking about it didn't help.

    Think that I just added to the confusion.
     
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