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The Return of the Good Ole' M3 .45 ACP 'Grease Gun'

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by horge, Aug 3, 2004.

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  1. horge

    horge Member

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    Just sharing, from the land of make-do.



    [​IMG]

    I came across some interesting Armed Forces of the Philipppines news at timawa.net

    In immediate need of a compact boarding weapon (and/or a PDW for land armor crews),
    AND apparently put off by the high cost/time delays in buying H&K MP5's, or even the local Floro 9mm Subguns, the Philippine Navy (PN) and Philippine Marine Corps (PMC) have turned to refurbishing and upgrading some mothballed M3 and M3A1 .45 ACP SMG's.

    A version equipped with sound suppresor passed tests with flying colors last May (2004) at Fort Boni. Naval Station:
    [​IMG]
    These suppressor-equipped versions are for the Marines' Special Operations Platoon. The subsonic rounds make the suppression particularly worth it. The 360-450 rpm ROF supposedly allows quick trigger fingers to let off single shots from this ostensibly full-auto-only firearm, and increases controllability.

    Supposedly, the cost of reconditioning, upgrading and reissuing around 40 of these old warhorses is less than the procurement cost of a single H&K UMP (a modern .45 ACP subgun).

    Lacking cash or support from the powers that be,
    the men and women of our Navy and the Marines get my heartfelt encouragements.



    :)
    horge
     
  2. PBIR

    PBIR Member

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    God bless common sense.
     
  3. PMDW

    PMDW Member

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    I wouldn't mind carrying one. :)
     
  4. seeker_two

    seeker_two Member

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    They could have picked a whole lot worse....


    ...but not much that would be better. :D
     
  5. ACP230

    ACP230 Member

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    I shot a suppressed M3 years ago.
    It was neat.
    All I heard was the bolt moving and the bullets hitting the steel targets downrange.
    The slow ROF makes the M3 very easy to control.
    The sights are crude enough, but easier to use than some other SMG sights.

    It has always been a source of annoyance to me that the supply of registered M3s is so low, and their prices are so high.
     
  6. Rebar

    Rebar member

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    Hey, maybe instead of spending millions on this 7" barrelled XM8 rifle, we should just stamp out a couple hundered thousand of the old M3a1 warhorses and issue those. Be a hellva lot cheaper and just about as effective.
     
  7. Dienekes

    Dienekes Member

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    Never shot the grease gun although did use some of the others. Hard to beat an MP5 but I think refurbed M3s would be pretty useful and persuasive.

    Looks like they would be a blast (!) to shoot.
     
  8. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    It is pretty easy to do single shots on an unsuppressed Grease Gun. The first time I ever fired one we had been working with MP5s. When we switched to Grease Guns I fired a single shot because after the MP5s I figured there must be a stoppage since only one round had fired so far... as it turns out, M3s are just slow... but still fun.
     
  9. AZRickD

    AZRickD Member

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    So, these are the new firearms that the Philipppino Marines won't be using in Iraq, right?

    Rick
     
  10. tiberius

    tiberius Member

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    Of course, they'll only have them so long as al-quedo says it OK....One good threat and the Phillipios get scared and run away.:barf:
     
  11. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    AZRickD and tiberius: Don't go confusing politicians with real people. The shortage of guts ain't in the Filipino armed forces.

    FWIW, it's "Filipinos" who live in the "Philippine Islands", for those with doubts as to spelling.

    I've been from Baguio to Basilan Island; it's a really neat place with a whole bunch of really neat people.

    Mabuhay!

    :), Art
     
  12. VG

    VG Member

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    I suggest you read "Ghost Soldiers" by Hampton Sides about the raid by the 6th Ranger Battalion and Filipino guerrilas to free the survivors of the Bataan death march before making such an unfounded statement.

    But by all means, please fill us in on your BTDT accomplishments.

    M60 tanks had an M3 for the driver so we had them into the mid-80's. We even had one M3 with the cocking handle, although the rest were M3A1's. Pretty crude but I wouldn't stand in front of one.
     
  13. Bravo11

    Bravo11 Member

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    I carried one while crewing on the M60A3 tanks in the '80's and I wasn't particularly found of the weapon. It just felt cheap. Like something that was made in someones garage in their spare time from scrap materials.
     
  14. horge

    horge Member

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    Hi, Art, VG :)

    Rick, Scott,
    You have every right to be peeved about the pullout of the Philippine contingent from Iraq. Similarly, I and many other Filipinos --especially the Armed Forces of the Philippines, and particularly the Philippine contingent members who can only follow orders-- have a right to be angry about the same thing (though the contingent members were no doubt relieved to reunite with families they'd not seen in well over a year).

    Please make sure your ire is pointed in the right direction.

    Our familiar knowledge of Americans is as a fair, plain-spoken, and brave people. This we know from seeing first-hand how they lay down their very lives to protect the Free World. We know it, and no disgraceful act, no scandal, no impeachable dishonesty by any of your temporary public officials --even the highest in your land-- can shake that knowledge.

    The shame for personal failures ought accrue only to the persons committing them.
    The two-mindedness, vacillations, and spinelessness of temporary politicians and REMF's in th Philippines are hardly any different.

    Mabuhay to you both, and God keep your soldiers in Iraq safe
    until you can bring them all home, job done.

    -----
    The Refurbished Grease Guns
    There's one serious issue with the refurbished M3A1's, and that's weight.
    In something issued to folks who may have to tread water, that might be a problem. I'm hearing it's around 10 lbs, loaded, and with the suppressor.

    megcatia,
    Not too far off the mark :)
    The M3 really is made from somewhat low-end parts and processes.
    IIRC their raison d'etre was wartime need for cheaply and easily manufactured alternatives to the .45 ACP Thompsons.
     
  15. Morlock

    Morlock Member

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    While the actions of the filipino govt are comptemptible to say the least; i take particular exception to the particular brush that you're painting a whole group of people with. the only difference between the United States and the RP (NOT PI!!) RE: Iraq/GWoT is leadership, and depending on how the november goes, that difference might just be moot. Trust me there are numerous Filipinos and those of Filipino descent that are incensed at the RP govt''s actions.
     
  16. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Hey, look!

    This isn't the Roundtable! Who knew? Talk about the guns, not the choices made by the politicians, and while we're at it lets not paint the men and women who serve with the same brush we use on their leaders. Seems like the US military did more than a little running away in Somalia, but no one blames them for the cowardice of the leadership in DC. This is the same kinda deal.

    Anyway, wanna talk politics, take it out of the rifle forum.

    Also, yeah. Good idea to use the grease guns. What is old is new again.

    Mike
     
  17. vwfool

    vwfool Member

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    I agree, get the politics out, no offense.

    As far as the Grease Gun... every mechanic should never be without one.:D

    I just wish I could have one in my tool box at work or at home or at the storage building or in the truck or...:D
     
  18. MrAcheson

    MrAcheson Member

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    Ten pounds for the suppressed model? Wow thats heavy, does it include mags? My recollections is that m3 mags are pretty stout as well.
     
  19. Pug Puppy

    Pug Puppy Member

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    I'd put the M14 and greasegun back into production. Anybody whose job prevents them toting a '14, gets a greaser.
    I wish they'd issue US civilians one of each.
     
  20. 0luke1

    0luke1 Member

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    Both people I know who had hands-on M3 experience didn't think much of them. My impression was that they equated cheap construction with lack of reliability. It's not a good thing to not trust your equipment.

    On the other hand, having spent many months in the Philippines, I can tell you that my experience with both the people and the country was the best I've had in the world. Nicest, most hospitable and outgoing hosts you'll ever come across.

    The Filipinos have gone through some bad times over the last 100 years - colonizaition, occupation, colonization, occupation - natural disasters. To be fair, some of their set backs were due to the US - and because they have been such good friends to the US. The good character of the people comes through every time, however. This thing in Iraq was a political expediency, not a mark on the good people of the Philippines.

    MABUHAY horge! Go get some of those bad guys hiding out in Mindanao.
     
  21. bogie

    bogie Member

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    The grease gun is very similar to the sten - cheap to produce, and reliable. I'd pick one of 'em over a Beretta 92 any day...
     
  22. Rebar

    Rebar member

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    The M3 was the last in a series of WWII era submachine guns (MP40, STEN, PPsH) mass produced from stamped sheetmetal. From my research, the M3 was the most effective and reliable of the bunch. It might have looked and felt "cheap", but it did the job it was supposed to do - a bullet hose that went bang when the trigger was pulled.

    And no one has ever complained about the effectiveness of the .45 ACP round.

    http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/grease.htm
     
  23. Oleg Volk

    Oleg Volk Moderator Emeritus

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    Of all open-bolt submachine guns I've tried, it was the second in controllability only to Beretta M38. I was very impressed with its balance, though I lack extensive experience with it.
     
  24. Warren

    Warren Member

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    Put a .45 on their hips and they only have to hump one type of ammo.
     
  25. Bravo11

    Bravo11 Member

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    Well the only SMG I ever handled was the M3 so I really don't have anything to compare to. As far as humping only one kind of ammo I guess that would have been a good thing but the thought of a tanker having to hump anywhere means something is dreadfully wrong.
     
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