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The Tactical 30-30 Lever Action Rifle

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by BusMaster007, Jun 11, 2003.

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  1. BusMaster007

    BusMaster007 Member

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    A while back there was great interest on the board concerning a 'Tactical' lever gun.
    I contacted Gabriel Suarez of Suarez Int'l. about an article he'd had on this subject.
    He dug it up and put it on his site.
    If he finds the photo of it, too, that'd be excellent!
    Meanwhile, here's the link to the article for us to enjoy:

    http://www.suarezinternational.com/leveraction.html

    :D
     
  2. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

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  3. Bob

    Bob Member

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    That's a good article. Of late, I have been thinking of selling off some of my mil surp guns and getting more levers. Partly because I have shared the writer's view and mostly because I find myself having more (alot more) fun with levers lately.
    At close range, a 44mag Trapper is a force to contend with. And darn cheap to shoot if you load your own.
    Bob
     
  4. Al Norris

    Al Norris Member

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    Good article! I said something along those lines a couple of years ago at TFL and some other gun boards....and was laughed at.

    Nice to be vindicated. :neener:
     
  5. CMcDermott

    CMcDermott Member

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    Only problem lever guns have tactically is working the lever from the prone position. Being able to "top off" the tube magazine with the rifle ready to fire is an advantage over box magazine rifles that makes up for the relative slowness of a complete reload. Having to use flat point bullets is actually an advantage as they hit harder than spitzer FMJ at the relatively short range (<200 yds) a tatical rifle is meant to be used and the high trajectory is a problem only at relatively long ranges (>200 yds). They are lightweight (6-7 lbs) and have a low "PC threatening coefficient" compared to most "black" rifles.
     
  6. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

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    A SWAT Magazine article early this year, or last December's had a section on Ashley Emerson at Thunder Ranch with one. One of the captions read "You might be a redneck if...." :D
     
  7. Omaha-BeenGlockin

    Omaha-BeenGlockin Member

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    I have and enjoy lever actions---BUT as an offensive tactical weapon ---DREAM ON.

    It would be good for defensive purposes---from behind cover---but that's about it. While you are cranking that lever or trying to stuff more rounds in that mini 6-round magazine----someone with an AR or AK will simply be sending more lead your way.

    The point was made about low cost--if that's all you can afford---ya use what ya brung----but there are MUCH better choices out there.
     
  8. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    For home defense, I'd go with a good levergun over a pistol or revolver any day. The levergun, whether .30-30 or a .44 Mag., is handier than a bolt action hunting or C&R rifle and far more accurate and potent than most handguns. It's also easy to cope with at three AM. And the sight of it doesn't tend to prompt the LEO's to call in the SWAT team quite so quickly.

    Obviously, it's not a good military front-line rifle. But I'd rather have a Marlin 1894P than a 1911 any day of the week.
     
  9. Andrew Wyatt

    Andrew Wyatt Member

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    1. if you need more than six rounds and there are fewer than 5 bad guys, you're doing something wrong.

    2. working the lever is just as fast as a semi auto because you don't disrupt your sight picture any more than recoil does.

    3. a 30-30 has way fewer protuberences than an MP5, or M4 does.
     
  10. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Member

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    Omaha- would you say that pump and semiauto shotguns are not "tactically" viable combat weapons? They too have tube magazines that hold from four to eight rounds. They too require the shoot-one, reload-one method of operation and many are manually operated.

    However, very few people will suggest that the 12 gauge shotgun is anything but an excellent close quarters battle weapon, regardless of what weapons your enemy is packing.
     
  11. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

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    Can you load the lever action from the left hand so you can keep the thing scanning for bad guys and shoot if need be?
     
  12. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Member

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    I can. But of course, I'm left handed. Most lever guns have the loading gate on the right side of the receiver. A true "tactical" lever rifle would have an ambidextrious one mounted on the bottom, I would think, but the loading gate as is can work fine with a little practice.
     
  13. Correia

    Correia Moderator Emeritus

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    I've met Ashley. Him and his lever action are on my list of people never to get into a gunfight against. :)

    Great guy by the way. And a good article in SWAT if you can find it.
     
  14. BigG

    BigG Member

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    Some flat black Krylon on the wood would make that lever gun Ueber-tactical! :cool:
     
  15. Detachment Charlie

    Detachment Charlie Member

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    Glad to see I wasn't too goofy when I posted that was thinkin' of a "thutty-thutty" as the ultimate "Apalachian Assault Rifle.":neener:

    Face it, we're dealing with people who have absolutely no understanding of firearms or the 2nd Amendment. If it's black it's evil. Bayonet lugs only lead to many, many more drive-by bayonetings. Equipped for a grenade launcher? OMG!!! Hundreds more convenience stores will have their Squishy Machines blown all to h*ll before the bad guys grab the cigarettes (the evil things) and instant lottery tickets (instruments of the devil). As for the pistol grips...wellllll, no normal American needs those wicked things.
    But a lever action carbine in the hands of John Wayne, Roy Rogers, Hop-a-Long Cassidy, Hoot Gibson, and Evil Roy Slade helped win the West and kept Americans free from Bad Guys. It's American. And, it'll drop Bambi's mom dead in her tracks. So what's not to love?:D
     
  16. Mannlicher

    Mannlicher Member

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    There is nothing wrong with a 30/30 as a defensive weapon, for the first magazine anyway. Certainly it is a good choice if you are SURE that your opponant shows up with one too. Slow reloading is not an asset, neither is the loss of sight picture when levering in the next round. Expensive ammo does not help the cause.

    I have toted around a lever gun, 30/30, .357 or .44 for years in the truck. When I do, I also have an SKS, just in case things really go south.

    There is a reason why no major law enforcement, or military entities issue a lever gun these days. The lever gun had it's day back in the late 1800's. There are better choices today.

    Gabe's article has some serious errors also, like saying the Duke had two rifles when he taunted and rode toward Ned Pepper.
     
  17. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Member

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    You know, if you keep the stock in your shoulder when you work the action, you don't lose the sight picture.

    AGAIN, the method of operation of the lever rifle has no more shortcomings than that of a pump shotgun. If the pump shotgun is an effective weapon despite it's limited capacity and manual operation, then so is the lever rifle. The two have nearly identical manuals of arms.
     
  18. David4516

    David4516 Member

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    Aside from semi-autos, I don't think anything is faster than a lever gun. I know I can work a lever faster than a bolt to a pump. I also find it easyer to keep my sight picture with the lever gun.

    I don't know about the .30-30 for defese though. Maybe if you live out in the middle of nowhere. But I'd rather have one in .357 or .44 Mag because it is less likely to go thur alot of walls.

    I think a lever action shotgun would be awsome. Only one I've ever seen was the one Arnold had in Terminator 2. Does anyone make such a shotgun? I know there is a model 94 that shoots .410 shot-shells, but I'd want at least a 20 ga
     
  19. foghornl

    foghornl Member

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    Tactical .30-30..

    Ah, yes...the Ozark Mountain Assault Rifle......:evil:

    Or the Smoky Mountain Machine Gun.....:evil:

    With most of my mis-spent youth used up in both Ark & TN, I can say those things...
     
  20. MrAcheson

    MrAcheson Member

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    Ahnold carried a winchester 1887 in 12 guage in T2. There has been talk of companies making reproductions of this JMB designed gun for the cowboy crowd, but none have shown up as yet. Norinco made an initial test run, but after the import ban I doubt we'll see that for a few years. Its too bad because their guns were supposed to be cheap at around $400. Tristar has had one coming out for a long while now, but its moving like a herd of turtles and will be expensive ($1000+). The originals are less that expensive ($800ish), but really shouldn't be fired with anything other than black powder.
     
  21. MrAcheson

    MrAcheson Member

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    Second the .357 lever gun over the .30-30. Twice the magazine capacity for very little performance losses if you use hot .357s like the GA deerstoppers.
     
  22. Glamdring

    Glamdring Member

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    The lever is weak for miltary use. Since it isn't able to provide suppresive fire.

    For one or two non miltary people (LEO or not) I would have to agree with others in that it is as viable as pump shot gun.

    Mall Ninja concerns aside. Your not going to be shooting dozens of rounds anywhere but the range or for plinking. Legally your responsable for every shot you fire even when shooting in self defense. So 6 to 10 rounds will be plenty. Specially if you carry a few spares on a but cuff.

    In what situation, that a civilian might face where they could legally use a rifle, will a lever gun fail? How exactly would an AR, AK, SKS, or M1a help them in that situation?

    IMHO the 44 mag is best choice, I think it has better terminal ballistics at realistic self defense ranges than 30-30 or 357. The 35 Rem would be my second choice for caliber based on so called stopping power.

    Remember Police SNIPERS seldom take shots at even 100 yards. And if you think about it you have to admit Police riflemen are going to have legal justification for longer range shots than the rest of us. If they are containing a goblin they might need to make a long shot. About the only way the rest of us would be in that situation is if we were assisting LEO like happened with the Whitman incident.

    The rest of us would have a difficult time proving that someone 100 yards away was an IMMEDIATE lethal threat.

    At least in my state you need all four of the following to legally use lethal force: 1) Must be reluctant participant 2) Reasonably in immediate fear 3) No lesser force will serve 4) Retreat is not possible.

    (edited for Spelling)
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2003
  23. Atticus

    Atticus Member

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    I'd like to know where he's buying these for $100 (or the one with a 4x Leupold on it for $200). Hmmmm. Otherwise, I agree with the concept. I love my 336's in .44 and .35.
     
  24. David4516

    David4516 Member

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    I agree with Glamdring. I can't think of many situations were an AK would be any better than my Model 94. If I need an AK, I probably shouldn't be there in the first place...

    Glamdring is the name of Gandolfs sword in LOTR right?
     
  25. Glamdring

    Glamdring Member

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    David4516: Yes, he finds it in The Hobbit. Sword made by elves for fighting goblins. Supposed to mean Foe Hammer.
     
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