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The transfer of high capacity magazines. HELP

Discussion in 'Legal' started by dasanii19, May 23, 2008.

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  1. dasanii19

    dasanii19 Member

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    MD residents can buy high capacity magazines in VA or PA and bring them back to MD Legally.


    Is this true?
     
  2. dasanii19

    dasanii19 Member

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    So what im trying to ask is, can I as a Nevada Resident make a sale to a MD resident but instead of me shipping the mags to MD (where the buyer is) I would ship the magazines to DE for the buyer to pick up.

    Is this legal?
     
  3. NC Dave

    NC Dave Member

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    Is possession covered under this? It is not clear to me.
     
  4. NC Dave

    NC Dave Member

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    .

    I think that will get you and he into trouble since the MD resident clearly cannot purchase said magazines from you while he is in MD. (See law above.)

    What I am not clear on is if the resident can physically be out of the state of Maryland, purchase the magazines, and brings them back into the state of MD.
     
  5. MaterDei

    MaterDei Member

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    Off topic.

    Thank goodness I don't live in a state where I wonder about the legalities of buying magazines.

    /off topic
     
  6. dasanii19

    dasanii19 Member

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    Here is the actual reply I got from the buyer.

    You will be doing none of those things in the state of Maryland.
    It is legal to posess, use, insert in rifle, fire, etc. a 30 round magazine in MD.
    You just can't ship them there.

    For example, 44Mag.com will ship AR mag "kits" to MD. A MD resident can take that kit into PA, VA, WV, or DE and assemble it.
    They can then take them back to MD. Legally.

    MD residents can buy magazines in VA or PA and bring them back to MD. Legally.

    The sale takes place in NV and the magazines are recieved in DE. Legally, neither of those states have similar restrictions.
    You can check in the MD/DE home town forum.

    Thanks.


    So what do I do guys?
     
  7. dasanii19

    dasanii19 Member

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  8. ieszu

    ieszu Member

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    Trying to figure that out....
    This is an interesting question that came up in a discussion of NYS law with the State Attorney General.

    If someone has a pre-ban magazine, strips it of all parts, build a mag kit with each mag kit containing at least one part, the new mag kits are considered pre-ban, as they are merely "rebuilds" (legally).

    Seems easy for an endless supply of mags, as each "rebuild" is pre-ban under the law, and can create new "rebuilds" from each of the parts within it, as all the parts take on the pre-ban status.

    When I mentioned this to Andrew Cuomo (the NYS AG), his comment was "Since they legally take on the status of pre-ban, then they are considered pre-ban under the law for all purposes...

    I wonder if this would work for MD law as well?
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2008
  9. dasanii19

    dasanii19 Member

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  10. mekender

    mekender Member

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    the better question to ask is... what are you going to do if your local sheriff shows up at your door with an arrest warrant issued by MD?

    sure it might be legal, but are you willing to post bond in MD, hitchhike back to NV, then come back to MD every 3 to 4 weeks until you can convince a judge that it was legal?
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2008
  11. dasanii19

    dasanii19 Member

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    I wish the buyer would have mentioned before the transaction that he was a MD resident and that I would be shipping the magazines to a different state. I didn't know anything about this until I received the M/O payment days later.

    Now im more then likely going to get a negative feed back from the buyer because im sending his M/O back and canceling this transaction. I like simple cut and dried transactions, I dont like to pussy foot around the law. The buyer had not once mentioned one thing about shipping the magazines to a state of which he doesnt reside in.
     
  12. mekender

    mekender Member

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    was this on gunbroker or ar-15.com?

    either way, i would send an email to someone that can be involved in the sale process and let them know what is happening and that you are concerned about negative feedback because of your unwillingness to participate in something that would be on shaky legal ground at best and possibly illegal at worst...
     
  13. dasanii19

    dasanii19 Member

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    AR15.com and the buyer doesnt have a state next to his sceen name either. So should I get in touch with a moderator or somthing?
     
  14. mekender

    mekender Member

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    :D:D:D:D:D

    i love how you stole my question in the arfcom post :D:D:D

    thats good stuff :neener:
     
  15. mekender

    mekender Member

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    yeah i would get in touch with one of the mods for that sales section... they should be fairly helpful
     
  16. Gator

    Gator Member

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    Why? Neither you, nor he, are doing anything illegal. If he does something illegal with the mags afterwards, that is his responsibility. There are enough stupid laws to trouble us, we don't need to go around inventing more, or going beyond what the laws actually say.
     
  17. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    I'm not a lawyer, etc.

    What my understanding is is that the jurisdiction in which the person receives the item is significant.

    * Federal law, which -may- have jurisdiction no longer regulates large capacity mags.

    * Most states choose not to regulate large capacity mags.

    * MD apparently chose not to prohibit importation of large capacity mags.

    Therefore, Actor A can go to FreeStateB, where it it not unlawful to purchase ItemC, and bring it back to MD with him.

    This is a lawful act, because

    does not apply to acts that take place in FreeStateB.


    This is exactly the same "loophole" that allows an NJ resident > 18 years of age to go to any state, purchase a BB gun, take possession of it there and bring it back with him, without a FID or paperwork of any sort

    What he can't do is take possession of the verbotten item in NJ, which would be the case if he mail ordered it.
     
  18. mekender

    mekender Member

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    i dont know, someone buys something from me, then tells me that they are having me ship the item to a state other than their residence, i would start to suspect that i was getting scammed...

    if they then informed me that it was because of the law of the state they lived in, i would start to feel that i had been put into a questionable legal situation...

    that would be enough for me to not feel comfortable with completing the transaction
     
  19. dasanii19

    dasanii19 Member

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    Gator,

    If it's questionable, shouldnt I play it safe?

    I'm actually not sure if he's correct about driving hi-cap mags back over the Maryland/Delaware border. But, I'm not a Maryland lawyer.

    Breaking the law is not something that I want to toy with, even if it's questionable.

    If he had come back saying that he lived in Delaware, or that it was a friend, or some other arguable item, that would be one thing. But he didn't---he came back and essentially said "yes, I am going to transfer these into Maryland and use them there." I would never advise anyone to take that risk---back to the worst case scenario, now I know for a fact this is in a gray area.

    It's very unfortunate this position im in; I will probably get some negative feedback from this guy, especially if he's active on gun boards. It sounds like he is the type to get indignant that not everyone shares his interpretation of the law.
     
  20. dasanii19

    dasanii19 Member

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    Mekender, your last post is exactly how I feel. Thank you
     
  21. NC Dave

    NC Dave Member

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    I think that were "Actor A" will run afoul is that he mostly likely did not draw and mail the money order from a state other than MD. He therefore made the purchase "in" MD - not allowed by MD law.

    My am not an attorney, but I would not ship mags to this guy for him to pick-up in DE unless the order came postmarked from DE.
     
  22. dasanii19

    dasanii19 Member

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    NC Dave, yes that is my concern. The MO has a MD address on it!! Oh man this law stuff gives me a headach..
     
  23. mekender

    mekender Member

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    thats another good point that i hadn't thought of... and again, this is all speculation on a grey area of MD law, of which none of us are super informed about...

    and another thing that has to be considered what if a judge decides that he has violated the intent of the law if not the wording?

    sure it might be thrown out of court, but that might take 6 months worth of legal battles...

    look at what NYC has done to gun shops here in NC over sales that were 100% legal in NC...
     
  24. dasanii19

    dasanii19 Member

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    Here is some input I received from a fellow member on another forum im on.

    I'm not a lawyer licensed in Maryland, but:

    The relevant law says "A person may not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, purchase, receive, or transfer a detachable magazine that has a capacity of more than 20 rounds of ammunition for a firearm."

    Worst case scenario, a DA decides to say that you conspired with the purchaser to ship the hi-cap mags into the state, or were an accessory to the shipment, both of which are crimes. The fact that you have a question is pretty much a good indicator that something bad might be happening.

    If you just didn't notice, or thought the guy was buying a gift, that'd be one thing. But you posted on a website that you thought someone may be trying to evade the law, so your suspicions are more than superficial. The chances of a prosecution happening, realistically, are slim to none. But, if one did occur, Exhibit A is going to be your post, and the DA will use it to show that you were consciously aware of criminal activity (or the substantial likelihood of criminal activity).

    My two cents, don't do it unless the guy tells you in writing (preferably, notarized!) that he is a resident of Delaware.
     
  25. Kharn

    Kharn Member

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    Maryland does not allow >20rd magazines to change ownership within the state, but its residents are allowed to travel outside the state to acquire new magazines and bring them back. Sending MOs to out-of-state sellers and listing a PA/DE/VA/WV ship-to address is the norm (or one could order a box of checks listing an out-of-state PObox). If you really want to cover yourself, ask him to remail the MO to you from an outside-MD post office.

    Non-MD residency is not required, since MD law cant govern what MD residents do when they're out of the state.

    Kharn
     
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