The Winchester Model 70

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When I am going thru the used rifle rack anywhere, I look for Winchester M70's first, I don't own a Rem M700 and probably never will. I do however own one Remington 22 rifle from 1950. My M70 appetite will never be fulfilled. I own and use several.
 
I do... look that is... I saw a left in short magnum, in a Euro full stock. I have forgotten which WSm it was.. next to it was a M-70 in 30-06. A half stock righty gun.

Had that been a lefty full stock in 30-06 it would be mine..

For all I know WSM is King, but I still like the limited loadings one can get for the 30-06....
 
I have a 1949 Model 70 in 30 06. Great rifle.

I too (Go SlamFire1) recently picked up an FN PBR in 300 WSM. It has the CRF and is basically a Model 70. The action drops right into a Model 70 short action stock.

The pre 64 Model 70s are just excellent examples of American craftsmanship that you are not going to see from a factory at an affordable price ever.

There is nothing particularly magic about them. They are just great rifles. Most people I have talked with that own them say they get moa groups but nothing like one hole at some insane yardage. Just good accurate reliable shooting.

The truth is the classics are becoming harder and harder to find and there are plenty of first class rifles available that can be use and abused while not leaving you feeling bad. You should not have to worry about devaluing your rifle by using it and in many ways that makes the classics less desirable. I have no such problem with my Model 70 but its easy to imagine.
 
Lots of good posts so far but I may not have asked clear questions in the OP. So I'll "rewind/restart" here.

The model 70 market is a quagmire. Someone in their 20s, let's say,... or someone who hasn't paid much attention to Winchester at all, might well not realize all the history (good and bad), or that there are plenty of less-than-ethical dealers around who will lie about what they have and rip people off.

So suppose that person came to you and said they wanted to try to buy a used model 70 to hunt deer with and they didn't particularly care if it was "pre-64", and they could spend less than $901 for the rifle without sights.
Further they tell you they have no caliber preference as long as it will kill deer.

Now you know on their shopping trips they are going to see several different models - XTR, featherweights, classics, yadda, yadda, yadda. And they are going to meet dealers/sellers who may, or may not, have any Integrity.

So what models with what features would you tell them to look for ?

And what models and features would you tell them to avoid ?

Please - NO caliber dissertations. It's about The Rifle.


How would you instruct the newbie to separate the wheat from the chaff in the model 70 market ?


Thanks All !
:cool:
 
M70

The safety. 3 position, allows the rifle to be unloaded in a safe manner.

The trigger. Easy to adjust, holds it's setting consistantly.

I won't get into push feed vs control feed. Both the M70 and 700 have push feed. M70's with control feed "classics" are a definite plus when the nice lion is charging you. You don't have to wonder if your second round was picked up and thrown home.

M70's mostly have nicer stocks. :D
 
I couldn't find a used M70 in .30-06 with a target barrel, so I settled for a MRC 1999 barreled action in an Accurate Innovations stock. I've heard of varying quality problems with MRC, but the one I have is terrific.

Trigger is M70 dimensions, and the action can accept aftermarket triggers designed for the M70. The one I have can be adjusted to a clean break at 2-1/2 lbs, so I haven't seen the need for a Timney.

The action is drilled & tapped for scope mount bases that are designed for the M70, too.

MRC adjusted the magazine lips for reliable feeding, too. The cartridges just aim at the center of the chamber and go right in. No rattling or banged up bullet points.

So, yes, I went a considerable distance to try to get a M70. Or something close, anyway. I wanted the M70 trigger, the 3-position safety and the claw extractor.

To answer the question about what I'd tell a newcomer to watch for -

1. Some actions use a floating lug assembly and this can be pinned to the bolt. If the pin breaks, the bolt handle will turn down but the lugs didn't move. This design is fine as long as the quality control is there.

2. Some triggers are horrible, and the manufacturers have made them non-adjustable. Apparently if you change the trigger, then anything that occurs later isn't their fault. Apparently Timney et al haven't been sued blind, yet. If you have your eye set on one of these rifles, budget for a new trigger.

3. Some insist on "packages" which include a worthless scope. Pretend the scope isn't there, as you are going to have to buy a decent scope real soon.

4. Unless it's a low-recoil caliber (varmint for example), pay attention to the recoil pad. Most manufacturers put some kind of hard rubber attempt on the stock, but it isn't going to work like a Limbsaver or a Decelerator. Make sure the stock can be cut to accept a decent recoil pad, or that there is a pre-cut available to fit the synthetic stock.

5. Some manufacturers use a piece of cheap plastic for their stainless/synthetic stock models. These stocks aren't dimensionally stable and can provide horrible accuracy. There is no reason to attempt to bed the action in such a stock. All it can offer is that it won't rot. If the rifle you're looking at has such a thing, budget for a new stock.

In other words, you get what you pay for. Newcomers aren't "up" on some of these things, and the problems they can cause. The manufacturers get away with it because the rifles sell. Necessary experience seems to be gained after the sale, and after a couple of hunting seasons.

Another problem is, many newcomers are not in a "learning" mode. They are in the "I know all I need to know" mode, and are not very receptive to this type of material.

Witness the number of "what's the best rifle I can buy that is accurate to 700 yds and doesn't cost more than $500" threads. :)
 
Here's the pics of my Supergrade. 1950 likely unfired with papers/hang tags in 30-06.
 

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Did I mention nice stocks?

Featherweight .257 Roberts, Supergrade 7mm Remington
 
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Actually, I'd tell "Someone in their 20s" to stay away from a Remington Model 710 - Far, far away. A Winchester Model 70 is a Winchester Model 70. My Jack Krieger built .30-06 Tactical Rifle started life as a Winchester Model 70 Ranger - the cheapest Model 70 made at that time.

Don (Shawnee's troll-weenie nemesis) :D
 
I love the model 70 and probably will convert my stable of bolt actions to model 70's. I have 2 rugers that I got for the "right" price wich I am in the process of getting rid of.

I currently own a model 70 featherweight in 30-06 and have never found a better handling rifle. I have also noticed that if you talk to the old timers you will find that the model 70 is king.
 
bipod was just for the picture

DSC00035.jpg

Edit: I am in the process of picking up a model 70 in 300 win mag and dumping my ruger. Hopefully will have pics of the 300 tommorow.
 
Here's the (.375a H&H) Remington 700 and the Winchester Stainless Ultimate .270 WSM that I took to Africa a few months back. The .270WSM was a hit! I used the .375 ony on Gems Bok and Blue Wildebeast as they are bigger thasn Elk and more dangerous if wounded!Surprisingly these rifles handle very much alike ,if you closed your eyes you couldn't easily tell the difference when running the bolt. You COULD tell when it went off , of course.
practicalstuff025.gif
 
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When I went looking I took a list of the serial numbers. I was not going to take anything less than a pre 64. I just stumbled on to the one I picked up but when I checked the serial number I could not believe it.

As to advice, you have to do your own home work. If you are looking for a pre 64 then any one of them will do but you have to be able to check out a rifle.

On the other hand if you are looking to spend less then some judicious shopping for a CRF is in order.

I have found the best formula is cash in hand and make haste slowly. There are great deals to be found. I picked up mine about four years ago for under $500.

I am no collector and I just wanted it to hunt with so I took the original stock off, added the pad, sanded it down and resealed it. I have been roundly condemned for this by several people. Heres a pic with a Bausch and Lomb 3200 on it.
 

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Sorry about that Shawnee...

I see you are "in the family" now.

:)

Push feed M70's are great rifles. I shot my first really nice whitetail buck
with a push feed M70 in 30-06. It was a friend of mines rifle. I borrowed
it from him on that hunt as the scope on my pre-64 went tits up. It's a
great rifle and I've tried to buy it from him a number of times. He knows
a good thing and won't part with it.

The only PF M70's I would steer clear of are the first ones that did not
have the groove cut in the bolt head to reduce binding.

I see the push feed M70 action as a thorough breed design.
A lot of the stocks they came in did not appeal to me, but the action
is a great one.

I was a little surprised to see FN abandon the M70 trigger design, but
I have not examined the new trigger so I withhold judgement on it.

Just my $0.02 but I see the control feed/push feed "arguement" as a
mostly much ado about nada for rifle weenies.

If you are going after dangerous game, yeah, why not. But I will tell
you a lot of people that must have a CRF action do not even
know what that really means. They have just bought in to the hype.

The M70 is a superb action, both PF and CRF.

I think the pre-64 has more collector appeal, but that is axiomatic.
But a lot of that has to do with romance, not superiority.


dxr


.
Stand down, DrXring... O'Conner and Clapton are sacred words to me too.

I didn't start this thread to bash the 70 no matter what those two troll-weenies bray from the porch.

As I said in the OP - the 70 seems very seldom mentioned any more and I wondered if any of the post-64 versions are worth their keep. And that's because if they are sweet I might just buy one as sort of a toast to Jack.
 
I have a pre 64 Mdl 70 in 300 H&H which is about 98% built in 59. Lovely rifle. My favorite hunting rifle though is a push feed Feather Weight XTR in '06. Lovely rifle, easy to carry in the field and is a shooter. The push feeds bolt is slicker than the pre 64's or classic's IMHO. I don't care the bullet will fall out of the push feed if I'm running the bolt while I'm upside down......

To me the 700's feel a bit clunky compared to a Mdl 70. But then again no shot gun sounds as nice as a Mdl 12 being racked either.
 
I'm just wondering how a bunch of non-thinkers at remington, savage, fn, browning and tikka are still so foolish as to not chamber every rifle in 243.


We all know that anything else would be machismo!!!
 
Shawnee,

WOW, 500.00. :rolleyes: Hmmmmm, well.... nope :neener:

I will say this about the M70's though. Even though I've got a couple with nice stocks, I do see a lot out there with butt ugly, cheap looking, synthetic ones.

And those rifles are priced about as right as one would ever hope for.

I've seen them from 250.00 to 400.00. When you pause to think about what you are getting for that, those are great prices.

That's another difference in the two. I was never a big fan of Winchesters' synthetic stocks. The only ones I liked were the varmint style, and HSP built a lot (or all) of those.

R700's (older) synthetics, in the varmint style vary a bit, each just a hair different- mil spec (R5), sendero, LTR, PSS. They have a little different contour, color variation, weight. Drop an LTR into a mil spec stock it has a completely different feel and balance to it. Same with a sendero and PSS switching back and forth.
 
Just my $0.02 but I see the control feed/push feed "arguement" as a
mostly much ado about nada for rifle weenies.

Totally agree. While I prefer the claw extractor, it is partially on looks, mostly because I can extract a round into my hand without having some spring loaded ejector fling the thing across the table. A claw extractor will last forever if you feed every round from the magazine. If not, I expect it will last as long as a push feed extractor.

I will mention that feed geometry is more critical with a M70 cone breech/claw extractor than a M70 push feed. On the right of the chamber is a claw extractor cut out. There is maybe a couple hundredth's of material between the chamber and the cut out. Feeding has to be perfect or the nose of the bullet gets fed into that extractor cut.

It happened to me with a dimensionally out of tolerance classic M70. It was an early production action.


I don't care the bullet will fall out of the push feed if I'm running the bolt while I'm upside down......

In my push feed actions, such a thing won't happen. This concern was created by marketing departments. I have not tried it in my M700 6.5 Swede, that rifle has a 30-06 length magazine box, but in every other push feed I own, they will feed rounds from the magazine to the chamber, and do it up side down.

I know the M16, M1, M14, M1 carbine, FN, G3/HK91, are all push feed mechanisms. Most semi auto military pistols are push feed. These arms have been proven in combat with push feed extractors.

Still when it comes to manually operated bolt rifles, I prefer the Mauser 98 claw extractor.
 
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