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The worst bolt action rifle of all time?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by tark, Jul 12, 2021.

  1. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    Didn't Furer make a bolt action with a toggle in it?

    Ross gets a bad rap--but when you take a hunting rifle to war as a battle rifle, it's going to have problems. Especially when you are trying to arm an entire nation while making a quarter-century's worth of technology jump too.

    Now the case might be made that the Kropatschek was a sub-par rifle, since the French Navy was willing to replace it with Lebel & Berthiers.

    The Gewehr Commission rifles were not that great--few things designed by committee are, but they did work.

    It's a complicated question.
     
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  2. Charlie Martinez

    Charlie Martinez Member

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    I TWICE fired a "sporterized" 98 Mauser carbine (8 mm) a friend picked up at Woolco for about $30 back in the early 70's. It had a horrible trigger and all I can remember is that the recoil and muzzle blast were incredible. I don't think anyone ever figured out how accurate it was because nobody could fire it more than once or twice. I've shot a lot of rifles since then and I have never experienced punishment that could even come close.
     
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  3. Swampman

    Swampman Old Fart

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    Whatever the worst is, I bet it was made in the Khyber Pass, not by a nation state attempting to arm its own troops.
     
  4. 1SG Ret

    1SG Ret Member

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    The worst:
    Raptor Bolt-Action Rifle. Economy-class rifle introduced in 1997. Chambered for .270-, .30-06, .243-, .25-06 and .308-calibers. Fitted with 22" barrel and black synthetic checkered stock. An upgrade model was available with wooden stock. Adjustable trigger. Weight about 7.5 lbs.
     
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  5. tark

    tark Member

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    Below are some pics of my Mk III. Obviously, it has been prettied up a bit, but it is in it's original military configuration. When I bought the rifle It was a rusted wreck. The bore was pristine which was a curios oddity. I decided to give it a mud and dirt bath to see if the myth really was just a myth, or was it true? Now, one experiment with one gun does not a definitive conclusion make...but the rifle handled the mud just fine. The real reason the guns were jamming , I suspect, was the condition I outlined in my OP. The rifle is astoundingly accurate. Note the finely adjustable aperture rear sight and the 37" sighting radius. The trigger is a two stage and breaks cleanly at five pounds. The bolts seven locking lugs can be seen in the third pic. The fourth pic shows the early deformation of the left rear lug, which caused the problem. Mine isn't deformed enough yet to be an issue. I work the bolt gingerly when I shoot it! ;)
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 13, 2021
  6. TexasPatriot.308

    TexasPatriot.308 Member

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    those cheap Remingtons either 710s or 770. pure junk.
     
  7. tark

    tark Member

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    Not surprised at that, at all !! I have owned Carcano's that were very accurate. They are a long way from being the junk a lot of people think they are. Frank de Haas screwed a 30-06 barrel onto a Carcano action many years back . Wanted to see it it would blow up. Finally ended up shooting a proof load in it. It held.
     
  8. Terry G

    Terry G Member

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    IMG_3703.JPG
    $12.95 plus $2.00 S&H/ I still have it.
     
  9. CoalCrackerAl

    CoalCrackerAl Member

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    Remington 770 here too. Mine was always tight. But after starting to load for it. And shoot it often. It's loosened up. And is now nice and smooth. I like the rifle a lot now. It's a 30.06. Very accurate too. One of the best economy guns i own now.
     
  10. .45Coltguy

    .45Coltguy Member

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    Yep, absolute garbage.
     
  11. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

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    Of the rifles I have personally owned, my nomination for the "worst of all time" is the Austro-Hungarian M1895 Mannlicher straight-pull rifle. I ended up giving it away to a dealer.
     
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  12. Ironicaintit

    Ironicaintit Member

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    That’s exactly what I was going to nominate.
    It sure feels like a handy little rifle, but with those clips, the trigger, and the 8x56R recoil... it’s the only rifle I have that I’ve thought of ditching (still haven’t, but I’m thinkin on it)
     
  13. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    I remember those! Like.....$159 new.

    I handled one. Everything was sharp on it
     
  14. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    I looked at some 2005 (year) comments.
    The best thing about the Raptor was it made the Remington 710 look good.
     
  15. tark

    tark Member

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    Amen X 2. Mine was the worst, by far, of the many straight pulls I have owned. Cranky, stiff, hard to cycle bolt, a trigger that was five pounds on one pull and fifteen on the next and an atrocious safety. But they were rugged and reliable, so I place them next to last. At least they didn't blow up and kill people.
     
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  16. tark

    tark Member

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    The so called "last ditch" rifles ( not the training rifles ) should more properly be called "substitute standard ." Just like the O3A3 rifles were called. Take a standard 03, figure out ways to make it cheaper and easier to manufacture and don't worry too much about appearance. You end up with a lot of machined parts being replaces with ugly stamped ones. The expensive delicate, finely machined rear sig is replaced with a stamped, easier and quicker to manufacture piece. That is exactly what the Japanese did with the standard T-99. Those guns still had to pass proof and function tests. They were butt-ugly but they were functional, rugged, reliable rifles. As such, I would not place them anywhere near the bottom of the list.

    As an aside, watch "Hacksaw Ridge " again. Every Japanese soldier is carrying either a type 38 or a list ditch 99. I never saw a type 99 with the full length wooden handguard.
     
  17. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    This is the rifle I came to add. I had virtually give mine away because no one wants such a POS. The feed ramps were so chattered on mine I had to wiggle the bolt and smack the bolt handle to get mine to feed the next round.
     
  18. dranrab

    dranrab Member

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    Both of those were singularly horrible rifles. I sold the 710s when I worked at Academy. It seemed like half of them came back.
     
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  19. Mosin Bubba

    Mosin Bubba Member

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    And what's with that sight picture? Straight up rigged carnival-gun stuff. It's like they were trying to have their soldiers miss high.
     
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  20. Deus Machina

    Deus Machina Member

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    In my experience, my Carcano.
    I love a lot of ideas behind it. In theory. But like a whole lot of Italian work, someone had good ideas... and then the designer of one part interpreted them one way, the designer of another interpreted them another, the machinists another, and it's almost like everyone's measuring tools were calibrated different.
     
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  21. MachIVshooter
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    MachIVshooter Contributing Member

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    There are some pretty crappy rifles out there, but I have to agree that the 770 is among the worst. They're decently accurate, but everything else about them is awful. Cheap rifles don't have to be junk, Mossberg proved that with the Patriot. But Remington never figured out the right and wrong places to cut corners with budget guns.
     
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  22. earplug

    earplug Member

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    Ross straight pull. Didn't like dirt and mud. Would kill a person when assembled wrong.
     
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  23. natman

    natman Member

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    The Raptor was pretty awful, but Remington saw it and said "Hold my beer" and came up with the 710 / 770.

    When I worked at a gun shop, our buyer bought some 710s. None of them sold, mostly because none of the gun salesmen would show them to customers. They ended up being given away as raffle prizes at a duck dinner.

    First prize was a 710.
    Second prize was two 710s.
     
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  24. tark

    tark Member

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    I love guys that don't read the entire thread before posting.
     
  25. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    I have a Ross, and it's difficult to assemble wrong -- you really have to be dumb to do that. If the Canadians had kept it, their average IQ would be about 5 points higher.
     
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