The worst bolt action rifle of all time?

[Lafitte]

Several years ago I briefly had a Raptor (I think) bolt action rifle that would qualify as worthless . I don' t remember exactly why I had it but I do remember why I don't still have it. It would have taken a lot of work to bring it up to pure junk level.

Lafitte

 

[whatnickname]

Carcano M38 carbine. Clunky, rough action, goofy clip feed, non-adjustable sights, floppy, rattling folding bayonet and brutal recoil in 7.35.....just ugh.

+1

 

[upptick]

Mosin Nagant.

Clunky, awkward bolt with short handle. So many suffer stick bolt. Rimmed cartridge invites feeding issues and the stripper clips are terrible to use.

...which makes the achievements of the most successful sniper of all time, the Finn Simo Hayha, even more impressive since he used a Mosin (with iron sights even!).

 

[JCooperfan1911]

...which makes the achievements of the most successful sniper of all time, the Finn Simo Hayha, even more impressive since he used a Mosin (with iron sights even!).

He got most.of his kills with a Suomi burp gun.

 

[Legionnaire]

+1 on the 710. Can't speak to battle rifles.

 

[bigmike45]

I agree, but because most will outshoot their owners skill level right out of the box, I can’t add it to my personal “worst list”

If you’re a Savage owner, you don’t show off your rifle (they are butt-ugly), you show people your target

Heres my Mark 2 FV in .22LR. Certainly not a showpiece, but what it lacks in looks it makes up for in accuracy



My Savage Axis 2 in .308...sorry for the blurry picture. Decent looking gun that is a hole in a hole shooter.

 

[4v50 Gary]

I have to admit that I've never heard of the Rem 710 or 770. I've been out of the market for a long time.

 

[Howland937]

I have to admit that I've never heard of the Rem 710 or 770. I've been out of the market for a long time.

Think sub-$300 MSRP, regularly found for $200 or so on sale... sometimes with a scope package. Then imagine everything that isn't required to be metal is plastic about as durable as the cups you get when you eat inside Pizza Hut.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Another vote for the Canadian service Ross in its various Marks as a worst. While the Carcano and Mosin-Nagant are inelegant actions that no sane shooter would use today as the basis for an expensive custom sporter, neither failed their users in the field the way the Rosses did. At different times the Ross suffered from defects in both metallurgy and design (the bolt stop in particular). On top of that, it didn't handle variable quality wartime .303 ammunition very well, and should have been built both shorter and lighter.

It's a shame, given that the excellent Ross sporting rifles performed so well by comparison. The military Ross was adopted with far too little iterative development and proved a disastrous choice once it entered service in a shooting war. Personally, I don't believe its problems were un-fixable.

As an aside, I actually quite enjoy shooting my Austrian M95 Stutzen in 8x50R -- but then I stick with reduced-power handloads. I don't think my M95's one-way en-bloc clips have ever let me down, which is more than I can say for any of the repro Carcano clips I've been able to source.



And BTW, the worst bolt action ever was the first one, whatever that was. Sometime long before the Prussian Dreyse Needle rifle was adopted, someone made the very first bolt action -- featuring all sorts of flaws the inventor had no way to know about until he started shooting it. Every good design can trace its ancestry back to a first-try that had all kinds of problems, which were gradually improved upon in numerous later iterations. We have basic features like out-of-battery safeties and leveraged primary extraction because of experience with earlier designs that lacked them.

 

[Swampman]

Mosin Nagant.

Clunky, awkward bolt with short handle. So many suffer stick bolt. Rimmed cartridge invites feeding issues and the stripper clips are terrible to use.

The Finns are still using them as sniper rifles, although they are looking into replacing 'em.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62_Tkiv_85

Not too bad for a rifle that was originally adopted 130 years ago.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

The Finns are still using them as sniper rifles, although they are looking into replacing 'em.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62_Tkiv_85

Not too bad for a rifle that was originally adopted 130 years ago.

That is a complete redesign.

 

[Swampman]

That is a complete redesign.

They're still using the original hex recievers (some pre 1900) and ancient five round magazine assemblies along with the old rimmed 7.62x53R round.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

By George, you CAN make a silk purse out of a sow's ear!

 

[45/30-06OKIE]

There are some pretty crappy rifles out there, but I have to agree that the 770 is among the worst. They're decently accurate, but everything else about them is awful. Cheap rifles don't have to be junk, Mossberg proved that with the Patriot. But Remington never figured out the right and wrong places to cut corners with budget guns.

My Patriot is a laser beam and will put 5 bullets in the same ragged hole at 30yds. I love that rifle.

 

[tallpaul]

Serbu RN-50, as recent events have demonstrated

one rifle using non standard ammo of unknown manufacutre/storage etc of all of them out there is a bit unrealistic don't you think?

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I have never been "into" military rifles so I will pass on that catagory. I am with someguy2800 on the axis. I don't have any idea how Savage manages to get the accuracy they do from such a cheesy built rifle.

Savage has always made very accurate budget guns. The Model 110 was named so because it was $110. I have a 110 "package gun" that has been superb. I paid $300 for it in 1994 ish. Somewhere I've seen an advert or something that basically stated the secret was in the adjustable barrel nut, which allows easy and perfect headspacing performed by a monkey. That said, I have no desire to own an Axis.

Funny that the 110 is now their top of the line gun. I've always always always wanted a pre-64 Winchester Model 70, but I've never bought one because the 110 does what it does so perfectly. It's the only non Winchester rifle I ever loved.

But hey, we're here to trash talk rifles. My pick is the garbage rod, also known as the Mosin Nagant. Anything that sold at gun shows from a trash can marked "Take Your Pick, $50" must be worthless. And after every gun show, I'd see guys show up at the range shooting shotgun pattern groups at 50 or 100 yards, saying, "hey this is pretty accurate." Meanwhile, my Savage 110 is putting out one-hole groups. smh. The only think the garbage rod had going for it was the price of the gun and the ammo in the 1990s.

 

[LoonWulf]

one rifle using non standard ammo of unknown manufacutre/storage etc of all of them out there is a bit unrealistic don't you think?

I wont ever own one. Not because it blew up, bit because of HOW it blew up.
Not worth debating circumstances again, but as far as im concerned there arnt enough safety mechanisms in the design. Others are of course welcome to have a different opinion...... equally i wouldnt call thr RN-50 a bolt action

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I wont ever own one.

You ain't the only one.

 

[Nature Boy]

one rifle using non standard ammo of unknown manufacutre/storage etc of all of them out there is a bit unrealistic don't you think?

There’s a long thread on the subject and I won’t re-litigate it here, but to answer your question, no I do not believe I’m being unrealistic in the least.

 

[LoonWulf]

There was also another 50 That tried to take out its operators without them doing anything out of line..... Can't remember the branding tho, that one was a "turn bolt"

After I reread my previous post I realized that the RN-50 is probably the most "bolty" of bolt actions, But it's not what I consider a traditional turn bolt.......

 

[troy fairweather]

I wont ever own one. Not because it blew up, bit because of HOW it blew up.
Not worth debating circumstances again, but as far as im concerned there arnt enough safety mechanisms in the design. Others are of course welcome to have a different opinion...... equally i wouldnt call thr RN-50 a bolt action

I remember the first video I seen of the rn-50. I left a warning on the video if that gun ever let loose it wouldn't be pretty. Mark got very pissy and deleted my comments. My warning to Kentucky ballistics is still on his fist video when he got the rn-50.

 

[45/30-06OKIE]

Savage has always made very accurate budget guns. The Model 110 was named so because it was $110. I have a 110 "package gun" that has been superb. I paid $300 for it in 1994 ish. Somewhere I've seen an advert or something that basically stated the secret was in the adjustable barrel nut, which allows easy and perfect headspacing performed by a monkey. That said, I have no desire to own an Axis.

Funny that the 110 is now their top of the line gun. I've always always always wanted a pre-64 Winchester Model 70, but I've never bought one because the 110 does what it does so perfectly. It's the only non Winchester rifle I ever loved.

But hey, we're here to trash talk rifles. My pick is the garbage rod, also known as the Mosin Nagant. Anything that sold at gun shows from a trash can marked "Take Your Pick, $50" must be worthless. And after every gun show, I'd see guys show up at the range shooting shotgun pattern groups at 50 or 100 yards, saying, "hey this is pretty accurate." Meanwhile, my Savage 110 is putting out one-hole groups. smh. The only think the garbage rod had going for it was the price of the gun and the ammo in the 1990s.

I was at a gun show here in OKC a month ago and came across a guy with a 1997 made Savage 110 in 7mm Rem Mag with a wood stock that he said had maybe two boxes of ammo through it since 1997 for $500! I checked it out and the bolt and barrel looked like it came off the assembly line yesterday so needless to say I am now a 7mm Rem Mag owner. I put a Bushnell 6-18x50 on it so I need to zero it and see how much it kicks.

 

[herrwalther]

I've owned a few of the budget rifles already mentioned so far. Axis, 770, 710, Mosins etc. I would take a sorely abused Axis over a 770 any day. At least I know an Axis can be fixed, those parts are easy to find. To some extent so can the 710 and definitely the Mosin. There is no fixing a 770. The replacement part for that is buying another rifle.

 

[Dr T]

Late WWII Moisin

 

[wiscoaster]

Late WWII Moisin

If you don't want it, I'll gladly take it off your hands. I've got four: a 91/30, 38, 44 and 39. Once you know how to polish the bolt they are pretty slick shooting rifles. Last week I saw a couple guys shooting a 91/30 at the range, struggling with the bolt, and could hardly restrain myself from offering to take it home and fix it for them. A cool rifle with a bad rep simply from a lot of guys who don't know what to do with it because they don't know it and don't appreciate it, and maybe because they're comparing it to their modern rifles, IMO (after all, the OP does postulate "of all time", heh heh).