I had one of the first .30-06 Savage 110s in Maine and though I had problems using handloads on a friend's press, adjusted for a couple of Win Mod. 70s in the same, but tighter chambering, the rifle performed well, after I got my own press and adjusted it for my rifle's longer chamber.
The worst bolt action rifle of all time?
- Thread starter tark
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I had one of the first .30-06 Savage 110s in Maine and though I had problems using handloads on a friend's press, adjusted for a couple of Win Mod. 70s in the same, but tighter chambering, the rifle performed well, after I got my own press and adjusted it for my rifle's longer chamber.
Paul R Zartman
Contributing Member
This thread quickly became a Mosin hate thread, I have one i sporterized, found a straight shooting one then made it my own, "tack driver" now.
All us guys buy guns then buy all kinds of stuff to make them better, if it ain't a straight shooter first ...we send it down the road and then find another...same with the Mosin...find a good shooting one then buy the parts to upgrade it and make it yours, if it don't shoot good, let one of those military nostalgia guys buy it from you so he can coddle that Russian relic.
All us guys buy guns then buy all kinds of stuff to make them better, if it ain't a straight shooter first ...we send it down the road and then find another...same with the Mosin...find a good shooting one then buy the parts to upgrade it and make it yours, if it don't shoot good, let one of those military nostalgia guys buy it from you so he can coddle that Russian relic.
sarduy
Member
Mosin nagant
i love mines
i love mines
Swampman
Old Fart
Mosin Nagant = The rifle that did the most to win WWII.
entropy
Member
Worst COMBAT bolt: Ross. Too fine of tolerances for a combat (Especially WWI trench combat) rifle.
OP
OP
tark
Member
That's not the reason they failed. See post # 1 and # 30.
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This thread quickly became a Mosin hate thread, I have one i sporterized, found a straight shooting one then made it my own, "tack driver" now.
All us guys buy guns then buy all kinds of stuff to make them better, if it ain't a straight shooter first ...we send it down the road and then find another...same with the Mosin...find a good shooting one then buy the parts to upgrade it and make it yours, if it don't shoot good, let one of those military nostalgia guys buy it from you so he can coddle that Russian relic.
Most don't know these Mosin's are used to shooting nothing buy corrosive ammo & have gotten little care over many years. I have bought ones that can't hit a barn from the inside & I have bought one that I will put up against any of the newer precision rifles. It's almost 80 years old & can out shoot most new guns.
She ain't purty but boy does it shoot.
daniel craig
Member
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- Dec 23, 2009
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- 2,815
Yo. Leave the mosin nagant out of this thread.
Riomouse911
Member
As far as looks and rifle-fit-to-me goes when firing, I also am not a Mosin-Nagant fan. They’re tough, serviceable and dependable on the battlefield I’ll give them that, but on the fun range it’s pure misery for me to shoot one.
As far as crappy rifles go, the Remington 770 was a train wreck. They cut corner after corner to slash production costs…and then doubled down on the low price hoping people would ignore the many flaws for the price on the hang-tag.
The short life span of that abomination proves people aren’t that dumb.
Stay safe.
As far as crappy rifles go, the Remington 770 was a train wreck. They cut corner after corner to slash production costs…and then doubled down on the low price hoping people would ignore the many flaws for the price on the hang-tag.
The short life span of that abomination proves people aren’t that dumb.
Stay safe.
HOWARD J
Member
I got rid of the scope. Replaced the front & rear sight & reloaded for it.
It was still krap but not bad for $11
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Meh, Id argue the PPSH was more effective in the hands of Red Army conscripts......
lysanderxiii
Member
The thing about the Ross, as a failed service weapon, is the fact that its failure predates its combat experience. It was adopted by the Canadians in 1903, just a few months before the SMLE. And while the SMLE only had minor changes through its life, and by 1907 defined by the Mk III version (1), the Ross was almost continually being fiddled with to get it working right. There was a Mk II*****, yeah, five stars. And the Mk III or M1910 was essentially a different rifle from the earlier Mk IIs. And all of this occurred before 1914.
The funny thing is the problems you noted earlier were identified and either were addressed could have been fixed by 1916. But, the damage to the reputation had been done, and Canada after twelve years of being promised that "this round of fixes will solve the problem," had had enough and just replaced them.
This also shows the importance of a rigorous development testing plan, rather that just believing the manufacturer's advertisement copy.
________________
1. The SMLE actually underwent only one major change; the change from the bolt head charger system (Mk I) to the charger bridge (Mk III). The Mk IIs were conversions of long Lees to Mk I or Mk I* configuration.
The change from Mk I to Mk I* and MK III to Mk III* were cost saving (or ammunition related) modification having nothing to do with usability.
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If anyone has read "A Rifleman Went to War" * by Captain Herbert McBride, Capt McBride was a pre WW1 Canadian shooter. He relates that he shot his Ross many times in rifle practice, everyone in the units had also, they all had great confidence in the rifle, and it was not till they got into Ypres (St Eloi) that the weapons started jamming. It was quite a surprise to him and to those whose bolts could not be opened. I don't know what sort of testing they did, but the Canadians sure missed something. The Ross rifle was still used as a sniper rifle after it was withdrawn from regular service.
Most comments in this thread are about well known military rifles, and less are about civilian rifles that were built in limited quantity, and fizzled because they were turkeys.
Stuart Otteson’s book “The Bolt Action” Vol II has a number of limited edition turkeys that no one knows about. Read the sections on the Omega II, the Shultz & Larsen Model 68DL, for rifles that were not ready for prime time.
Two models that I would like to know about, were the ones involved in two incidents related to me. The first account was from a Bud who was at the range when a prone shooter had the bolt blow out of his rifle, go through his chin, and through his shoulder Bud said the bolt was picked up 50 yards behind the firing line. Bud said the locking seats were on a pressed in collar in the receiver ring. The collar was not mechanically fastened, it rotated, so when the round was fired, the bolt lugs were not resting on anything. I asked Bud what make, and he just said “some foreign model”.
The second was of a shooter who was testing bullets at either Sierra or Speer. His incident was similar, the rifle was a German rifle (the name was so obscure I could not find it on the web, and since have forgotten it) with a pressed in locking lug insert. During testing the insert rotated, the bolt blew out, going through his forearm. The rifle was in a fixture, and he had his arm over the stock to press the trigger. I was told this while at a rifle match, the unfortunate was shooting on the big end of the range, and I was on the small, I had limited time to do things, so I did not go visit and press the gentleman for details on his accident.
These incidents have made me leery of actions with pressed in locking lug recesses.
* Jamming of the Ross may have been in his first book: The Emma Gees.
Good enough for Government Work.
Most comments in this thread are about well known military rifles, and less are about civilian rifles that were built in limited quantity, and fizzled because they were turkeys.
Stuart Otteson’s book “The Bolt Action” Vol II has a number of limited edition turkeys that no one knows about. Read the sections on the Omega II, the Shultz & Larsen Model 68DL, for rifles that were not ready for prime time.
Two models that I would like to know about, were the ones involved in two incidents related to me. The first account was from a Bud who was at the range when a prone shooter had the bolt blow out of his rifle, go through his chin, and through his shoulder Bud said the bolt was picked up 50 yards behind the firing line. Bud said the locking seats were on a pressed in collar in the receiver ring. The collar was not mechanically fastened, it rotated, so when the round was fired, the bolt lugs were not resting on anything. I asked Bud what make, and he just said “some foreign model”.
The second was of a shooter who was testing bullets at either Sierra or Speer. His incident was similar, the rifle was a German rifle (the name was so obscure I could not find it on the web, and since have forgotten it) with a pressed in locking lug insert. During testing the insert rotated, the bolt blew out, going through his forearm. The rifle was in a fixture, and he had his arm over the stock to press the trigger. I was told this while at a rifle match, the unfortunate was shooting on the big end of the range, and I was on the small, I had limited time to do things, so I did not go visit and press the gentleman for details on his accident.
These incidents have made me leery of actions with pressed in locking lug recesses.
* Jamming of the Ross may have been in his first book: The Emma Gees.
Good enough for Government Work.
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Swampman
Old Fart
Hokkmike
Member
That I have actually shot - Carcano....
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