The yay/nay Taurus poll

[mavracer]

I asked her specifically if they repair gun finishes, ands she replied, “Yes we do, and yours will be repaired.”

If he read the manuel and had some integrity he would have never asked.
you have the right to voice your opinion just as I have the right to say IMHO you are bashing Taurus without your own personal experiance and have based your opinion on somebody who was ignorant and lacked Integrity.

 

[VHinch]

I've only owned one, an 85 Ultra Lite, it's had no issues through 300-400 rounds and gets carried on my ankle everyday.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

I participate in these non-scientific polls because I've come to believe that the vast majority of folks who enjoy this forum are honest, earnest & forthright. The poll's still running ~65% yay & ~35% nay. In reading the responses, I think if the 1st Gen PT145 & Gaucho pistols were pulled from the sample, the positive votes would increase substantially.

 

[ronto]

No problems with my semi-autos...However, I wouldn't get their revolvers as long as Ruger and S&W are around.

 

[tinygnat219]

Ghost Tracker,

Just wanted to clarify something here you said in your post:

In reading the responses, I think if the 1st Gen PT145 & Gaucho pistols were pulled from the sample, the positive votes would increase substantially.

My PT 145 was a 3rd Gen pistol. Brand new. Not sure if I made that clear in my original post.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

tinygnat219,
I was just trying to give the PT145 the "benefit of the doubt" because mine (and 3 of my friend's) were ALL 1st Generation, purchased right after they were introduced. We all thought they would be a great CCW choice. I would have NEVER imagined a manufacturer releasing a new product as serious as a firearm with so little apparent concern for its durability. We ALL encountered the same cracked frames, broken internals & repeated battles with Taurus Customer Service over "Lifetime Warranty" & delay issues.

While all of us are reasonable men & didn't expect a Taurus to be a Vickers 1911 or a Sig 210, we DID expect more than we got. In fairness, over time, Taurus DID (eventually) at least put us all in a position to sell/trade functioning handguns for brands & models in which we had more confidence. We (a group of about a dozen SERIOUS handgunners) have not experienced such an epidemic failure before or since.

I genuinely hope these issues at Taurus have been addressed since our collective disappointment. But it will take more than a 1 in 3 chance of satisfaction (according to this poll) for us, at least, to take the gamble again.

 

[32 Magnum]

Taurus handguns

I have no experience with the auto-loaders, but the two revolvers that I have owned and do shoot regularly are of excellent quality and totally reliable. Both of mine are from the Total Titanium series, a M38Ti and a M450Ti.
http://links.pictures.aol.com/pic/7f80FqNRRC0VC88v1sZq7Ds8cS*crjcgt0M2v4xQp5Fd3Ig=_l.jpg

 

[DawgFvr]

Ghost Tracker...I bought the first "tin can" Honda civic when it came out decades ago and had the same observations you had concerning the "1st Generation" PT145. If you have read anything on any/all gun sites about the 2nd generation, 3rd generation, et.al., PT145, you would know that, yes, all the problems were addressed...and like Honda...the Taurus PT145 10+1 pocket canon now leads everything in the pocket .45 ACP category IMHO. Yup...I can carry this potent pistol in a Mika Holster in a coat jacket and use 160 grain Corbon DPX...which these little short barrel wonders just love!

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Corbon 160 gr DPX.htm

 

[Ghost Tracker]

If you have read anything on any/all gun sites about the 2nd generation, 3rd generation, et.al., PT145, you would know that...

Well that's what I'm doin' here DawgFvr. Thanks for telling me "all the things I should know". You wanna' know what ELSE I've learned here? That +30% of this poll's responders feel the way I do. And they aren't all past owners of the 1st Gen PT145. You can carry what you please. IMHO, I'll stick with gun makers that have a better track record, past & present.

For every link you can provide that raves about the PT145...I can provide one that slams it. I'll be glad to listen to your opinion, just try not to be quite so authoritatively demeaning as you try to change mine.

 

[tinygnat219]

Ghost Tracker,

I was just trying to give the PT145 the "benefit of the doubt" because mine (and 3 of my friend's) were ALL 1st Generation, purchased right after they were introduced.

Gotcha! I just wanted to be clear (because my post wasn't) that I had the 3rd Generation.

We all thought they would be a great CCW choice. I would have NEVER imagined a manufacturer releasing a new product as serious as a firearm with so little apparent concern for its durability.

So did I, nice and light compact double stack .45ACP with manual safety, what's not to like?

We ALL encountered the same cracked frames, broken internals & repeated battles with Taurus Customer Service over "Lifetime Warranty" & delay issues.

Ok, you trump my pistol's "failure to go to battery" Sounds like they have gotten better by going from catastrophic failures to simply unreliable.

While all of us are reasonable men & didn't expect a Taurus to be a Vickers 1911 or a Sig 210, we DID expect more than we got. In fairness, over time, Taurus DID (eventually) at least put us all in a position to sell/trade functioning handguns for brands & models in which we had more confidence.

Well, I am a sucker for a bargain, and Taurus makes some quirky handguns. The Gauchos are slick looking and have a nice feel of authenticy with their 4 clicks. However, when I get gremline kinds of firings out of them, it's time to sell.

We (a group of about a dozen SERIOUS handgunners) have not experienced such an epidemic failure before or since.

That's good. I figure I am 0 for 7, so I don't want to push for number 8.

But it will take more than a 1 in 3 chance of satisfaction (according to this poll) for us, at least, to take the gamble again.

You have got that right. For some of us, myself included, will never consider them again. For those of you that like them, good luck. It's a gamble buying and depending on a Taurus to the point where sometimes you just have to step back from the table.

 

[mpmarty]

My personal experience with Taurus has been favorable for over twenty years. Bought a model 85 in 1986, still have it hundreds of rounds later. Tight, well fitted and reliable for less than $200 brand new. I have had 2nd gen and now have 3rd gen PT145s and they were / are absolutely reliable as is my 24/7. I suspect some of the detractors are spouting what they have heard rather than what they have experienced personally, just a bunch of schoolyard punks doing a "yeah, me too". I lack snob genes I guess, but own Saiga, Marlin, Mossberg, Ruger, Howa, Schmidt-Rubin, Arsenal, Witness (Tanfoglio) and yes, Taurus and each and every one of them is quite reliable, well made, and none of my shooting buddies doubt that I will finish a match without any equipment problems. I've owned Colt Trooper and Python revolvers in 38spl/357 mag, as well as S&Ws model 19s and 686s and was no more impressed by those stalwart American brands than I am by Taurus and refuse to throw good dollars away for some stupid name recognition. Same reason I drive a SAAB turbo rather than a Beemer or Mercedes it's the performance that matters, not the bling value.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

I suspect some of the detractors are spouting what they have heard rather than what they have experienced personally, just a bunch of schoolyard punks doing a "yeah, me too".

Why is it that when someone relates a negative experience (especially if it doesn't agree with one's own) it's immediately suspected as hear-say? But when someone relates a positive experience (again, especially if it agrees with an otherwise suspicious poster) then it's dyed-in-the-wool, eye-witnessed, first-person, swear-on-the-bible, irrefutable gun gospel? I'm not calling anybody out here or questioning the validity of their point-of-view. I'm just wondering (outloud with a group of Gun Buddies) why it's so hard to accept opinions or poll numbers that don't agree with our own experience without guessing there MUST be something "suspicious" going on?

Gentlemen, differences of opinion & experience are what makes the Kentucky Derby such a spectacle. There's nothing suspicious or under-handed going on. You pay your money & you take your chances.

 

[mpmarty]

My apologies. I based the foregoing rant on the fact that most of the positive remarks were prefaced with "I had" and a lot of the negatives were accompanied by "my buddie, I hear, I've seen" not first person singular.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

Heck, no apologies necessary. I was just asking why y'all think that happens.

a lot of the negatives were accompanied by "my buddie, I hear, I've seen" not first person singular

I didn't see "a lot" of those in here. Most everybody seems to be relaying personal testimony, I musta' missed 'em. But I'm with you, I'm SURE it does happen, mostly from folks are thick on opinions...but thin on experience.

 

[DawgFvr]

Ghost Tracker: My post's point is that you only referred to the "1st generation" PT145 that even my grandson knows had problems that were addressed and fixed! Ancient history my friend. I mean...we are discussing rocket ships and you are reflecting on your model T experience.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

DawgFvr,
I clarified my experience was with a 1st Gen PT145 so no one would MISTAKE my position as a broad-sweeping generalization (see Post #78). Seems to me your post's point was more a lecture on how much more of what everybody knows that YOU know than do I. I wasn't aware that the poll & associated posts were exclusively the domain of folks who; (A.) had recently purchased Taurus products, and (B.) thought they were wonderful...

...even my grandson knows had problems that were addressed and fixed!

...and you apparently still feel that way. You might want to read Post #52 & #80, they ARE about the 3rd Gen PT145. Frankly, I'm delighted that your grandson is so well informed. I think you're right. I haven't kept-up with the corrections & modifications performed by Taurus in an attempt to make reliable handguns. Because I didn't/don't CARE what they did. I've tried enough Taurus handguns to give them a fair chance at my business. Their products didn't cut it. There will always be mid-low grade, "value priced" handguns. Rossi, Llama, Hi-Point, Patriot, and Jennings, etc. handguns fill the new & used sale cases in gun stores across the country. There are plenty of people who believe them to be perfectly adequate. As for me & my grandsons, we'll shoot Colts, GLOCKS, Sigs, Brownings, Volquartsens, Kleingunthers, Rugers, S&Ws, L.C. Smiths, Parkers, etc. You can put Taurus handguns in any category that suits you. I don't have time for your Rocket Ships, but thanks for the lecture.

 

[DawgFvr]

I'm sure glad that the M16 nay-sayers did not make the Government give up on the problem ridden first version of our assault rifle. Problems were ironed out by the M16A1 and by the time the M16A2 came out...we had a pretty fine rifle. But then...I'm sure there are a many that have never bothered to look beyond their first negative experience and will constantly bash Colt...just as so many bashed the "plastic" Glock during its inception. One can go on with the new S&W "lock" revolvers...but I think you get my drift. I'll keep my rockets...you keep your Model T...after all, it will be valuable cuz it's so old and dated. Lectures however are free....and you're welcome!

 

[Ghost Tracker]

So...you DIDN'T go back & read Post #52 & #80? Or are you just ignoring them because you're on a roll?

Here's an idea...start a new thread on just 3rd Generation Taurus PT145 Satisfaction and see how many folks need the same lecture you've given me. I can't participate because I haven't owned one. But if it's your position that anything short of a Taurus is an antique...then you'll be laughed off the forum & I won't have to help.

I don't mind your opinion & haven't tried to change it. Nor have I suggested that you having it means that you're obviously out-dated, under-informed, or less gun-saavy than my grandchildren. It's you that are so thoroughly convinced of your superior experience, knowledge & opinion as to condescendingly dismiss anyone (or maybe just me) who didn't have good performance from the brand of pistol you choose to carry.

161 people have voted in this poll. 58 (+35%) feel the way I do. Are they all antique fans & less informed than you & your grandson? Please Gramps, tell us more, tell us more.

 

[DawgFvr]

Ah...but I have the 2nd generation...which is quite perfect. No need to go all the way to 3rd and I believe they are selling the 4th generation...each with additional improvements. Just got to love those innovative people down in Brazil...eh? Golly...I think I must have pushed your button...or turned your crank. Hmmm...did I say that anything short of Taurus is an antique? Nope...I did not think so. Glad of it too as I only own this one Taurus in my collection of weapons (I have fired a few of their revovlers but do not own any at the present)...and, I carry a variety of weapons including a S&W, Ruger, Springfield and, of course, the PT145. I do not believe that 35% of this huge, huge poll of 161 actually feel the way you do at all...and I did not dismiss you or them even if they did. Do I think your one experience (or your friend's same one time experience) on the flawed first version of the PT145 is adequate to make an informed opinion on the quality of Taurus weapons? Nope...and that is my beef. At least others on here know where and how and with what minimal experience your one time bad experience has colored your opinion. I'll let those people make their own decision on just how "informed" it was.

 

[johnnytang24]

I think the problem with people voting when they don't own the product is that it skews the numbers.

As an extreme example, suppose there are 5 owners of a particular firearm. One of them has a problem and posts it on various message boards. 10 people read the post and they all vote. So the poll would show:

4 people think their firearm is fine.
1 person has problems + 10 people who have read the problem, but have no experience with the firearm.
So does that mean 4/15, or only 25% like that particular brand?

Another example:
There are two reviews, one good, one bad. There are 100 people who own the product. 100 people read the good review, 100 people read the bad review. 300 total.
The poll would then add up to:
100 people who own the product + 100 people who read the good review
100 people who read the bad review
200/300, or 66% of people like the product, when there are only 100 owners, and they all voted positively.

Think this is improbable? How often do you see people (beside the gun rags), start posts about how great a particular product is? Most people see that as bragging. But then again most people are not afraid to post negatively, either because they have a problem they want fixed, or because they want to warn others of their dilemma.

Thanks.

 

[Floppy_D]

I passed on a 627, a 6" SS 7 shot in 357 for $250. A good friend of mine picked it up. If I could go back in time, all things considered, I would have paid close to $400 for it. It locks up like a bank vault, and shoots dead straight. That gun alone changed my opinion on Taurus, in their favor.

 

[SouthpawShootr]

I have several. The first autoloader I bought after turning 21 was a Taurus PT99. Exceptional weapon. Second one I bought was a Taurus 85. Nice little gun that served me well. I later sold both and replaced both. In both cases it wasn't due to any disappointment, I just wanted something different and was in college at the time, so funds were limited. I now have a few more Taurus autoloaders and a couple more of their revolvers. One of the revolvers has a problem that is, most likely, a QC slip at the factory and I'll probably send it back one of these days. I find the PT92/99 series 9mms to be the best of the Taurus autoloaders. I'm very happy with my 650, my 85TI, and my 455 revolvers. Overall, I'd say they are a safe bet, but they still need a bit more stringent QC.

 

[Elm Creek Smith]

The Taurus revolvers I've had (1 old Model 66 sold in a fit of weakness, 1 Model 85SSUL swapped in a fit of "gottagettakahr" stupidity, and 1 Model 85SSUL that I bought recently) have functioned just fine and have been accurate as I am. My brother oftimes carries his stainless Taurus PT111 in preference to his Kimber Pro Carry II .45. Again, he has had no issues.

Circa 1981, I bought a S&W Model 629 at the Mainz Rod & Gun Club in Germany and took it to the range. While shooting, my rounds started impacting further to the left with the same sight picture. What happened? The barrel was loose and torquing as the bullets went through it! The S&W distributor in Germany fixed it, and it served for many years until elbow surgery ended my flirtation with the .44 Mag.

A few years ago, I bought a Ruger Vaquero Bisley BCCH in .45 Colt with the 4 3/4 inch barrel. Took it to the range, and it put every round in a nice tight group - 18 inches to the left of point of aim at 15 yards! Back to Ruger it went. It came back fixed, and is in the safe now. I've used it with HSM .45 Colt 300 grain JSP "Bear Loads" with no further trouble.

Did I use two bad experiences with brand new guns to bash those manufacturers? Nope. Why not? Anything manufactured can have stuff go wrong with it. It's the nature of machines.

My Dad always told me not to buy a new car the very first year it came out. I made that mistake with a 1978 Ford Fairmont Futura and found out Dad was right. They gotta get the "kinks" out of them.

Are there Taurus products out there that aren't up to snuff? Yep. And, there are products out there from every other manufacturer that aren't. Get over it.

ECS

 

[BobMcG]

Well, I was torn between #1 & #2 and just threw the switch on #2 for the heck of it. Neither really applies to me exactly.
On the one hand my Taurus has always been reliable and I'm very pleased with it. However, I'm not going to sit back say that everyone who's had problems is overstating them. On the other hand I don't find myself real concerned about the company's reputation either, good or bad or indifferent.

 

[OAKVILLE SHOOTER]

I voted "mine are great, but their reputation is troubling"

I currently own seven Tauri handguns. I have never had ANY problems with any of them. When I started buying them, I was comforted by the lifetime warranty. Since then, I have discovered The High Road, and read the horror stories about customer service, and this does cause concern. That being said, I will still probably continue to buy their product. At least until I have some of the problems that some of you have posted.