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"They should teach the cops conflict resolution!"

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Preacherman, Jul 8, 2006.

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  1. Preacherman

    Preacherman Member

    Dec 20, 2002
    Louisiana, USA
    Sheeple never cease to fascinate me with the sheer illogic and stupidity of their comments. See the bits highlighted in bold for examples. Conflict resolution? When a dumb whatever is pointing a gun at you? Sheesh . . . :banghead:

    (Besides which, sounds like the conflict was, indeed, resolved! :D )

    From the Indy Star ( http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060707/NEWS01/607070504/-1/ZONES04 ):

    July 7, 2006

    Police response ends with shooting

    After armed man is chased and killed by officer, residents ask why

    By Andy Gammill and Kevin O'Neal

    Police chased a man they said was causing a disturbance on East 38th Street into an apartment building and fatally shot him Thursday, an incident that heightened concerns about crime -- and complaints about the police -- in the Eastside neighborhood.

    Harold Ward, 28, was pronounced dead at Wishard Memorial Hospital at 2:25 p.m., police said.

    The officer who shot him, Patrolman Brycen Garner, has been on the force two years and will be reassigned to administrative duties pending a series of mandatory reviews. Indianapolis Police Maj. Lloyd Crowe said the shooting appeared to follow departmental protocols but that an investigation would determine whether Garner used force appropriately.

    Nearby residents called police about 1:45 p.m. to report that a man in the 3200 block of East 38th Street was creating a disturbance by shouting, interfering with traffic and hitting passing cars. Police said callers also reported the man had a gun.

    Officers arrived and said they saw Ward, who lived in the 5400 block of East David Street, waving a gun and shouting obscenities. Officers asked Ward to drop his weapon, but instead he ran inside an apartment building. Crowe said officers followed Ward but did not enter the building, instead ordering him to put down his gun and come out.

    Garner, however, approached from behind the building and confronted Ward in a hallway. Ward turned his gun toward Garner, police said, and Garner fired his shotgun. Police said Garner shot Ward once in the chest.

    "The suspect aimed the weapon he had at the officer," Crowe said. "If he was in fear for his life, the officer did the right thing."

    Police are issued a Glock pistol, but patrol officers are allowed the option of adding a department-issued shotgun to their weaponry. Crowe did not say what kind of ammunition was in the shotgun.

    Court records showed Ward had been arrested four times in recent years, with one of those arrests leading to a cocaine-possession conviction. Ward originally received a suspended sentence, but a probation violation meant the suspension was revoked, and he got a two-year sentence.

    Police records said Ward also had been involved in several incidents since 2000 in which police were called but no one was arrested, including a domestic disturbance last month.

    Mike Shafer, who said he was across the street when Thursday's shooting occurred, described a chase that escalated into what he said sounded like a "shootout" as police cornered Ward.

    Shafer said officers approached Ward on the steps outside an apartment building. Shafer said he then saw Ward run inside and heard shots fired as officers followed. He heard more shots, he said.

    "They had the building surrounded," Shafer said.

    He said he thought the police should have acted with more restraint.

    Neighbors gathered along 38th Street for more than two hours to watch as police gathered evidence and took statements.

    At an on-scene news conference, residents aired their doubts about the police version of events.

    Demetria Lipscomb, who lives up the street with her six children, said she's afraid of the crime in the neighborhood and believes the police are contributing to it.

    "They should teach the cops conflict resolution," she said. "They're just going in there and shooting them."

    Lipscomb said that even if the police were right and Ward pointed a gun at an officer, the officer should have been able to try something else besides killing him.

    Several investigations will follow the fatal shooting, with the first probe being conducted by police homicide investigators.

    The case will be handled by IPD's internal affairs office and a critical incident response team, and a Marion County grand jury will look into the shooting.
  2. mbs357

    mbs357 Member

    Dec 14, 2004
    Vienna, VA
    So...according to this woman.
    The more the police shoot the badguys the more they break the law?
  3. CajunBass

    CajunBass Member

    Jun 2, 2005
    North Chesterfield, Virginia
  4. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Member

    Apr 17, 2005
    Police should get personal shields like the Borg so the bullets will just bounce off them they can shoot their phasers at the bad guns and stun them. :rolleyes: Or they should just call Superman.

    If the guy had gone in the apartment building and shot several people, those same idiots would be complaining that they didn't shoot him sooner.
  5. robert garner

    robert garner Member

    Feb 9, 2004
    columbus georgia
    Personally, for some un-intelligible reason , I like the cut of officer Garner's gib.
    Tho a coupla verses of kumbuya 'round the campfire;while enjoying the contents of a coffee can couldn't hurt!. ......course that could lead into
    OVERTIME without revenue generation:scrutiny:
  6. ilbob

    ilbob Member

    Jun 14, 2006
    While there is certainly nothing wrong with attempting to resolve conflicts in a non-violent manner, and I am in favor of cops learning to do so, I am pretty much convinced that the time and place for it is other than when a criminal is pointing a gun at a police officer.
  7. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

    Dec 30, 2002
    Deep in the Ozarks
    Demetria Lipscomb ought to stop worring about what cops are taught and spend more time wondering what kids are taught. A well-brought up child does not point a gun at a cop.
  8. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

    Dec 28, 2002
    Salt Lake City, UT
    The folks cited in the article are the ones who should learn conflict resolution techniques if they don't like the way the cops handle these sorts of situations. Then they can handle things themselves. Win-win for everybody! :D
  9. Wes Janson

    Wes Janson Member

    May 12, 2006
    Sounds like he applied conflict resolution appropriately and effectively.
  10. C. Rabbit

    C. Rabbit Member

    Dec 7, 2005
    I guess she wants the cops from the future in Demolition Man, as they were very effective in dealing with violent criminals.
    How can one...brain cannot comprehend...exploding...

  11. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

    Dec 24, 2002
    Lafayette, Indiana-the Ned Flanders neighbor to Il
    Background for non-native Indy folk:

    East 38th Street is in a area that is known as "The Swamp." This area is cited in the opening paragraph of Thomas Sowell's lastest book "Black Rednecks and White Liberals". It has the tangle of rats and snakes that the Welfare State brought us going back to the Jim Crow immigration after WWI.

    This same area has a marked divergence of reaction to Police Action Shootings. Those in the Professional Aggrieved Minority Business say silly things no matter how worthless and evil the person shot was. OTOH, those of the non-minority status are prone to say "Golly, officer, Jimmy Bob Lee Jasper Longstreet Lee, was a good boy, but I reckon he shouldn't have pointed that shotgun (snake, flamethrower, tree limb) at you fellas. Can I have his pickem up truck?"

    Saying stupid things after the police does the community a favor and removes a thorn in its side without clogging the jury trial calendar is an Indianapolis tradition.:uhoh: :)
  12. Technosavant

    Technosavant Member

    Mar 24, 2005
    St. Louis, MO

    I thought the conflict WAS resolved.
  13. 1 old 0311

    1 old 0311 member

    Jun 26, 2005
    Planet Earth
    Come on now guys. When a crazy guy stands in the street, waving a gun, yelling at people, hitting cars, and FINALLY points a weapon at a LEO, the LEO should have realized that this guy was probably a troubled youth. Someone with mental issues. Someone who just needs understanding. A good boy who just got in with the wrong crowd. Sure the LEO probably saved the lives of potential hostages.....NAAAAAAAAA buy the LEO a beer for being smart enough to bring a shotgun to a gunfight:neener:
  14. HighVelocity

    HighVelocity Member

    Jan 18, 2005
    IDPA junkie in DFW, TX
    What kind of ammo was in the shotgun? Why does that matter? :rolleyes:

    Try something else. Maybe a hug would have worked? :banghead:

    A long time ago I was watching a news report where a man had been shot and killed by an officer when the suspect pulled a gun and didn't just point but actually fired at the officer.
    The dead guys sister was on TV and she said; "Why did they have to shoot him in the head, why didn't they just shoot him in the arm?" She was serious.

    I then turned off the tv.
  15. Jamie C.

    Jamie C. Member

    Mar 27, 2005
    Tennessee... the top, middle part.
    Sounds like officer Garner has a very thorough understanding of what it takes to win a gunfight...

    It also sounds like he probably did remarkably well in his conflict resolution classes, back at the academy... ;)

  16. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

    May 22, 2003
    Lexington,North Carolina...or thereabouts
    Conflict Resolution

    I happen to agree about conflict resolution. Here are my suggestions, in steps.

    Step 1. "Sir, I need to have a word with you, sir."

    Step 2. "Sir, if you don't stop fighting with me, I shall be forced to use my pepper spray and cuff you."

    Step 3. "Sir! If you hit me again, I shall be forced to rap you sharply across the shin with my baton!"

    Step 4. Sir, if you don't put that gun down, I shall be forced to draw mine and point it at you."

    Step 5. "Sir, if you fire that gun at me again, I shall be forced to return fire."

    Step 6. "This is Officer O'Malley. I need an ambulance and a county coroner
    at the corner of Mulberry and The Highway of No Return."

    In the event of a drawn weapon by the perp, the officer may elect to skip directly to step 6.
  17. Eleven Mike

    Eleven Mike Member

    Mar 11, 2006
    Right behind you!!
    Sounds like they gave him a good chance to put down his weapon and talk.
  18. gezzer

    gezzer Member

    Aug 15, 2004
    She is a Moron, plain and simple.
  19. Devonai

    Devonai Member

    Mar 24, 2003
    I'm sure the officer is all broken up about his decision not to hesitate.
  20. Black Knight

    Black Knight Member

    Jun 19, 2006
    Charlottesville, VA
    Seems like some of those folks need an education. What would happen if the police could pick and chose the calls they answered? Imagine if they had to live with no cops available. They would then see how important they are. I have found that most who critisize cops this way don't have the guts to walk a mile in their shoes. Thank God there are those that do have the guts to take on the challenges of police work. My hats off to all who wear the badge.
  21. torpid

    torpid Member

    Aug 12, 2004
    CA coast
    I sense very little love in the officer's choice of resolution.

  22. 1wildbill

    1wildbill Member

    Apr 14, 2006
    I sense much sarcasm in your comments:rolleyes: , that's good. The word "feel" would have been my suggestion in place of "sense".
  23. torpid

    torpid Member

    Aug 12, 2004
    CA coast
    I feel you may be correct.

  24. yy

    yy Member

    Jan 3, 2003
    Los Angeles, CA
    wait a minute!

    it's not the woman's fault. :neener:

    It's the media's fault for printing only the woman's opinion. I want balanced view, such as a bunch of guys with their thumbs up saying good shoot.:rolleyes:

    not that either is good. but then again, why are we reading this trash reporter?

    <I know, it's the preacher's fault for bringing this stupidity to the screens:evil: >

    Nah, let's just laugh at the stupidity, recognize the futility, and move on.:D
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