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Things you never expected to do...

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Trent, Aug 20, 2012.

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  1. Trent

    Trent Member

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    Top of my list for "things I never expected to do" would be to teach my ex-wife how to shoot a handgun.

    This last week she dropped my kids off at my house after her summer visitation time was up. I just happened to be cleaning the belt fed Russian RPD on my kitchen table when she arrived (big grin).

    Aaanywho my ex sticks around for awhile, chatting with my wife about the kids, then hits me with one of those off-the-wall / never-expect-to-hear-the-words-come-out-of-her-mouth questions.

    "I've been thinking of getting a handgun to keep in my house for protection, what kind do you think I should get?"

    After a minute or two, I pick my jaw up off the floor. She was ADAMANTLY anti-gun last I checked - 10 years ago she even took me to court to try to get the judge to order I can't keep firearms and ammo in the house with my kids (and WON, no less - I was placed on a restraining order that I could not keep BOTH guns AND ammunition in the house at any given time; only one or the other.. that's a different subject altogether though).

    Anyway, sensing something was up, I asked her "you ever shot a gun before?" She said she'd shot her fathers handgun once. I talked to her for a few minutes, and determined she knew absolutely nothing about guns, whatsoever, and an idea forms in my head.

    So I holler at my son (Trent Jr.) "Junior! Go get me a box of 9mm out of the basement."

    Going to teach this woman to shoot, right now.

    We go out on my back deck. I walk her through the golden rules. How to operate the handgun. How to hold the handgun. How to load it, unload it, and check it for safety. (Demonstration gun is a Taurus PT-92, btw).

    Put the magazine next to the handgun on the deck rail, walk her through loading it, chambering a round, and firing it.

    She was SHAKING after the first shot, but keeping the muzzle in a safe direction, so I ask, "you want to do it again?"

    "No, that's enough for now. Wow, those are LOUD." (We didn't grab ear protection first - by design - if she plans on using it for home defense she needs the whole experience, including noise).

    I take the handgun from her and empty the remaining 16 rounds in to the tin can out in the yard.

    We go back inside.

    She asks "So how much does one of those cost?"

    We talk about different guns, and I tell her "you're not going to buy one until you're trained, though, right?" (I can't accept the idea of her buying a gun and not learning how to properly use it, not with my kids in the house.)

    We spent a lot of time talking about the legality behind self defense; Wisconsin (where she lives) is a "allow retreat/must retreat" state, from what I could determine.

    We agree to range trips once a month on visitation weekends, when she comes down, until she's comfortable enough to handle them on her own.

    This, my friends, was no small victory!
     
  2. gbeecher

    gbeecher Member

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    Education!

    Good job! Now the world has another educated responsible gun owner (future anyway). I'm angry, but not suprised at the judges ruling on your guns and ammo. What a sad country America has become! Having a gun without ammo or vice versa is stupid and insane. I keep my rifle and ammo in the same closet, though the gun is unloaded for safety. My sons are 14 and 18 and they've both been taught to shoot and what it means to be a responsible gun owner. Miracles really do happen! ;)
     
  3. drsfmd

    drsfmd Member

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    I disagree with you about noise, but otherwise commend you.
     
  4. MrDig

    MrDig Member

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    Give up my life in food service to go to School for Gunsmithing. I've been working with food for over 30 years and am about 10 days away from starting school. Some things popped up to force my hand so to speak but none the less going back to school at the age of 52 scares the hell out of me. I can't see collecting disability for the rest of my life so going to school makes sense but wow does this have me a little freaked out.
     
  5. Jorg Nysgerrig

    Jorg Nysgerrig Member

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    Sounds like a great way to alienate a potential shooter and to help ensure she starts out with a flinch.
     
  6. coloradokevin

    coloradokevin Member

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    Nice work getting her to shoot. Be very careful though, the noise thing can scare people away from shooting. I've been shooting for over 25 years now and I still don't like the sound of gunfire without hearing protection... and I can say as some others have pointed out in the past, in a real life situation the sounds tend to get muffled by adrenaline.
     
  7. Dentite

    Dentite Member

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    Cool but for me hearing protection and .22LR is IMO the best way to start.
     
  8. hardluk1

    hardluk1 member

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    Good that the ex wants you to work with her on learning to shoot, BUT allways wear ear protection. During a time when she needs that pistol she like lots of hunters or people that have to defend them selfs never here notice the sound anyhow. Bad on your part.
     
  9. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    My ex is free to go to the NRA web site and find her own instructor. My NEW wife, on the other hand, nags me that we don't go shooting enough, and just nagged me to grab some more ammo on the way home. :)
     
  10. f4t9r

    f4t9r Member

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    I would never want my ex handling any firearms. Woman scorned thing !!
     
  11. Manco

    Manco Member

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    Nice going overall :cool:, but I'll have to join the chorus regarding the noise issue. In my view, "Shock & Awe" is not the ideal way to introduce most people to firearms, unless you're trying to drive them away, that is.
     
  12. Trent

    Trent Member

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    I figured (and expected) I'd catch some flak on the "no ears" thing.

    I've only done the "no ears" thing twice with people. The first time was when my family was visiting - my cousin (who'd never been around guns) just up and grabbed one of my (unloaded) firearms and started waiving it around. I'd just got back from a trip to the range when they showed up at my door, and had the gun out to clean it. Following that, we went through a 30 minute training session on the back deck that culminated in shooting without ears on. The entire POINT was to install some respect in him. It worked.

    The second time was with my Ex, this time. Unlike my dangerous cousin, I warned her ahead of time - "we're going to shoot once, and once only without hearing protection."

    She agreed to it, but wasn't expecting it to be anywhere CLOSE to as loud as it really is. Got a laugh about it afterwards - "They sure don't sound like that on TV"...

    You have to understand that things haven't always been "great" between us, far from it, and the shock & awe value was two parts; my own little guilty pleasure, and the reality that "these things are powerful, respect them."

    The shaking thing she did was a bit of fear and adrenaline. After she got over that, she was doubly or more interested in getting a gun. It went from a "someday I should/I'm thinking about it" to "I want to do this right now, how much do they cost."

    We had the typical conversations - even including concealed carry. She said "I won't carry a gun in my car, or on me. I'd rather keep a knife in the car."

    I said "sure. But what if the guy attacking you is a 250 lb bodybuilder amped up on PCP? He won't even NOTICE the knife, even if you bury it up to the handle in his gut. Or, even worse, what if there are two or THREE guys? You aren't a ninja..."

    She'd never consider being vastly overpowered. Once she realized that gun are the 'great equalizer', that did the trick.. she immediately had me looking up CCW stuff for her on the internet. :)

    Anyway, the idea of my ex packing heat scares me a little on the inside. Some small corner of my brain is still saying "you gotta be **** me".

    But that, that my friends, is the entire POINT.

    Make the criminals THINK before they do crime. And everyone - including my Ex - has the right to defend themselves. Especially if my kids are there at the time. I'm 4+ hours away, can't rush in like superman to save the day.
     
  13. Godsgunman

    Godsgunman Member

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    Good job in my opinion. Except for the ears thing, I like to keep my hearing thank you. Don't want to damage a very useful sense that God gave me. Where do you live that you can just step out back and pop off some rounds? Im extremely jealous about that. Always like to hear of ex-antis coming to see the light. You are right about the knife thing but I'd argue that a handgun wouldnt be that much better against a 250lb body builder on PCP unless you can score a couple brain stem hits. Might be enough to distract him a little so you can run away though.
     
  14. Trent

    Trent Member

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    We live out in the boonies. Unincorporated subdivision, on a lake in the woods. Behind my house I have a 65' drop to the lake, and on the other side about 100 yards from that, another 70' rise that leads in to miles of corn-fields.

    End-moraines (the hills pushed up by glaciers at their extreme endpoints) make some wonderful backstops, and we have a lot of them out in the country in Illinois.
     
  15. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    I did the "no ears" thing to a friend once, on his insistence. I had handed him some muffs but, being all macho or whatever, he declined. I had mine on. It was his first time with a handgun, which was my Ruger Mk-II, and I fired first. One shot was all it took. "Damn, Med!" he yelled. "Wait a second!." He grabbed the muffs. And that was a .22.
    Good deal on your ex at least partially coming around. I'd still be tempted to threaten to ask a judge to order her not to acquire both a firearm and ammunition for it until she can demonstrate proficiency and safety with both, since your kids are at her house.
     
  16. berettaprofessor

    berettaprofessor Member

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    I'm still trying to get past the "teaching the ex-wife to shoot" thing. Got a death wish or something? Death-by-ex-wife? Make sure her sights are set high and right so you can always run low and left.
     
  17. Trent

    Trent Member

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    Maybe the real message here is I should buy come concealable body armor!
     
  18. Ex-MA Hole

    Ex-MA Hole Member

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    How you could teach anyone to shoot without ear protection is beyond my level of comprehension.

    ESPECIALLY someone that you have an ugly past with regarding firearms.

    Good job scaring the crap out of her?!?!?!?!?
     
  19. Trent

    Trent Member

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    Ex-MA Hole;

    Appreciate your input.

    One shot, without ears, outside, of a 9mm isn't going to make you deaf. Hell, it didn't even make my ears ring and I was standing right next to her. I warned her ahead of time, AND explained why we were doing it that way.

    Sure, indoors? Heck of a lot louder. That was also my point. "This will be several times louder inside if you ever have to use it."

    Knowing what to expect at least takes the shock value out of it if you ever HAVE to do it. No sense in scaring yourself stupid when you NEED to be as calm as possible in a life or death situation.

    As I explained to her, future range trips will have correct hearing protection.

    But, thanks for your input.
     
  20. tdstout

    tdstout Member

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    When I was a kid just learning how to shoot, we never had earmuffs. The person watching would cover their ears with their hands, and the person shooting just had to grin and bear it. Nowadays though, I don't really appreciate my ears ringing hours after I get finished shooting, so I almost always wear ear protection.

    I guess what I'm saying is that you can learn to shoot without muffs, so I'm not gonna rag on you about it, but it does suck.
     
  21. Trent

    Trent Member

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    tdstout - Same here, I learned to shoot without muffs.

    I still shoot 22's without muffs, but mostly that's subsonic rounds in the back yard (to be considerate of the neighbors). 9mm doesn't even bother me outdoors - wouldn't want to shoot an extended session with one, but rattling off a few rounds to test a handload don't cause ringing in my ears at all. Mellow loaded 45 Colt, 38 special, same thing, those don't bother me one bit.

    Of course, indoor ranges are horrid for sound levels, that's a game changer. But I haven't shot at an indoor range in over a decade. I never did like shooting in indoor ranges, even WITH muffs on.

    40 S&W/45 ACP is ugly. Those will cause my ears to ring after the first shot. Any centerfire rifle.. won't do it, period.
     
  22. RustHunter87

    RustHunter87 Member

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    dont hunt much do ya??
    ya did fine she wont go deaf from one mag with out ear pro and i agree she needs to understand that if she ever has to use her gun ITS GONNA BE LOUD!~
     
  23. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    It is never acceptable to shoot without hearing protection.

    It is never defensible to teach anyone to shoot without hearing protection.

    Because each person is different you can cause permanent damage to someone's hearing doing so. That damage may not be noticeable to them or it may produce effects that interfere with their life. The risk from shooting without hearing protection is not something we have the right to impose upon them as the experienced shooter.

    Trying to rationalize such behavior doesn't change the fact that it is irresponsible.
     
  24. Al Thompson

    Al Thompson Moderator Emeritus

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    In an emergency, it's a non-issue. Auditory exclusion seems to kick in when the adrenalin starts pumping making the whole idea of "getting someone used to the noise" not just incorrect, but potentially very counter productive. If that same person hesitates to drop the hammer on a bad guy due to fear of the noise, that would be a bad thing.

    And if the auditory exclusion (best represented by Jim Cirillo's "who's firing my gun?" remarks about his first shootout) does not kick in, you still have the doctrine of "lessor harms" in that I'll trade my hearing for my life.

    Shooting with out ear and eye pro is a horrible idea.
     
  25. Trent

    Trent Member

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    Hasn't been a post on this thread in over a month, then I get ganged up on by mods. :)

    Yes, hearing protection is good.
     
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